Question Re. Devastating Crit

[Britasianninja]

First and foremost, thank you for the work you put into the server, Driller (and anyone else involved). While I am new to BSK, I've been having a great time; it still feels weird to be back on NWN after almost a decade of inactivity.

I had a quick question regarding the status of Dev. Crit on this server - while I understand (and agree) that vanilla Dev. Crit is a broken feat and should not be found on PWs, I had read on an (admittedly old) post that it had been modified on this server to increase the crit multiplier by 1 (e.g. x2 to x3, etc.) instead. However, upon attempting to take Dev. Crit as a feat, I was informed that it was disabled, and was forced to take my level again. Was I mistaken in my belief that Dev. Crit had been changed, and it is indeed disabled? If it is disabled, would you consider changing it to provide the aforementioned increase to crit multiplier, so as to have a strong alternate crit feat to work towards?

Best,

-T

[driller]

This is in progress. I will re-enable it if I can get to work right.

-driller

First and foremost, thank you for the work you put into the server, Driller (and anyone else involved). While I am new to BSK, I've been having a great time; it still feels weird to be back on NWN after almost a decade of inactivity.

I had a quick question regarding the status of Dev. Crit on this server - while I understand (and agree) that vanilla Dev. Crit is a broken feat and should not be found on PWs, I had read on an (admittedly old) post that it had been modified on this server to increase the crit multiplier by 1 (e.g. x2 to x3, etc.) instead. However, upon attempting to take Dev. Crit as a feat, I was informed that it was disabled, and was forced to take my level again. Was I mistaken in my belief that Dev. Crit had been changed, and it is indeed disabled? If it is disabled, would you consider changing it to provide the aforementioned increase to crit multiplier, so as to have a strong alternate crit feat to work towards?

Best,

-T

[Britasianninja]

Great to know! Thanks!

[driller]

I have added the fix in. It isn't complete yet. But it works, probably OP right now, it does x6 no matter what at the moment.

The finished replacement will add +(x1) to your weapon's critical multiplier, that includes Weapon of Choice too. For example: A longsword(x2) + Weapon of Choice(x1) + devastating critical hit(x1) = x4 critical multiplier.

-driller

Great to know! Thanks!

[Britasianninja]

Thank you!

Can confirm, as it is it's quite OP - I went from ~140 crits to 400+ in one lvl. Poor Umgahs...

-T

[Capt Cliff]

Is dev crit disabled on BSK EE? I was in party with a couple of WM that were getting astronomical damage as high a 600 points on a single hit! I am not sure if they had dev crit or just overwhelming crit. Damage of this proportion makes PvP impossible. I have played BSK since 2005 and I do not remember seeing such damage back then. Besides partying with these WM's I rarely got a kill since one hit and the monster was dead, so it screws up the experience distribution.

So until this is resolved I am no longer playing on BSK, it will turn into a server of Weapon Masters IMHO. I suggest reinstating the old BSK system for OW Crit and Dev Crit.

[driller]

Is dev crit disabled on BSK EE?

The instant death on fort save has been removed. It now gives an extra x1(Like Weapon of Choice) exactly like the old BSK.

I was in party with a couple of WM that were getting astronomical damage as high a 600 points on a single hit! I am not sure if they had dev crit or just overwhelming crit. Damage of this proportion makes PvP impossible.

Are you sure it wasn't someone using smite evil?

I have played BSK since 2005 and I do not remember seeing such damage back then. Besides partying with these WM's I rarely got a kill since one hit and the monster was dead, so it screws up the experience distribution.

Same system as the old BSK, plus, it had Amber crushing blows too.
That can be true of a lot of classes, not just weapon masters.

<insert embarrassing ultimatum here>

I am not against changing it, but I would rather hear everyone's thoughts first.

it will turn into a server of Weapon Masters IMHO.

Then players will make Pale Master's(which requires evil alignment)and people will make Smiters and people will make .. You get the picture.

I suggest reinstating the old BSK system for OW Crit and Dev Crit.

It is the old system.

-driller

Is dev crit disabled on BSK EE? I have played BSK since 2005 and I do not remember seeing such damage back then. Besides partying with these WM's I rarely got a kill since one hit and the monster was dead, so it screws up the experience distribution.

So until this is resolved I am no longer playing on BSK, it will turn into a server of Weapon Masters IMHO. I suggest reinstating the old BSK system for OW Crit and Dev Crit.

[Jake_Master]

I hit a 700 with a +5 hammer and regular sockets... I think it is a bit overpowering. As cool as it is to hit that much damage I do believe it is a bit much, fully forged weapon and lvl 40 I’ll be swinging 1000’s on a Crit. Hope to see some implication of Dev Crit but maybe something a little dimmed down compared to this. One Crit in pvp and most people are dead, mine as well try and make the fort save instead. I foresee abuse of scimmys, rapiers, and duel wield WMs to abuse this, which in turn yes people will just build PMs, but how cheesy is that.

[Capt Cliff]

I hit a 700 with a +5 hammer and regular sockets... I think it is a bit overpowering. As cool as it is to hit that much damage I do believe it is a bit much, fully forged weapon and lvl 40 I’ll be swinging 1000’s on a Crit. Hope to see some implication of Dev Crit but maybe something a little dimmed down compared to this. One Crit in pvp and most people are dead, mine as well try and make the fort save instead. I foresee abuse of scimmys, rapiers, and duel wield WMs to abuse this, which in turn yes people will just build PMs, but how cheesy is that.

I agree with Jake completely. Do the monster get Dev crit and OW Crit? If not then add it to the Lizards in the swamp and the Formian's in the eastern wastes and see if peeps like getting one shot killed hunting lizards or Formians, or Umgahs.

driller, I assumed it was a vanilla setup but if it is like the Old Bioware BSK then I am stumped. I in all honesty do not remember seeing that kind of damage with such regularity on the Old BSK Mod. Almost every hit getting 400 hit points of damage on average was eye opening! An personally who want to play on a server where you are either a Pale Master or a Weapons Master for PvP, seems it would be a tad boring. Is there a fix, beats me, but the server IS NOT nor DOES NOT play like the 2005 version, IMHO.

[Rakash]

While I am aware of how hard Dev. Crit can hit, I think you are over-reacting a tad for several reasons:

1- As it stands nothing in pve has devastating crit at the moment so most of your concerns seem to be about pvp. (That and most pve endgame bosses at the moment are crit immune from my understanding)

2- There is more to pvp and a build than how hard you can hit, and would love to actually test it in the arena to see some actual results to how good it is.

3- Almost all of the builds that can get dev crit are pretty squishy themselves, I think that they would die just as quick as their opponent in most cases since 75% of their build is dedicated to just getting this feat. Which makes them really susceptible to being cc'ed 100% to dead really easily.

I would love to start a constructive debate on the topic of the new Dev crit. I am not trying to attack anyone or their viewpoints, I just would like some testing to go into Driller's new fix before people get up in arms about his changes. If anyone has a level 40 character with Dev crit, I'd love to test multiple builds vs it in pvp and the arena. I myself have a sorc, cleric, and assassin that I would love to test vs someone's WM.

[Jake_Master]

Put a caster against a melee character and they should win in most instances... but taking 2 melee builds one on one it’s just gonna come down to who rolls the Crit first

As far as a sneak most melees won’t be able to see em coming but even still one lucky roll when they come out of HIPS and it’s over. It becomes less dependent on strategy at this point

In all honesty it isn’t make or break for me, I’ve been on bsk EE for about a month now and haven’t pvp’d once but I do see it as something unbalanced for sure. I play a WM to do damage and have fun, if I want an effective build I will run a cleric. I play for fun and I play what I like, not necessarily what is the best. Their is a counter build to any build out there, you can make the argument of that all day

It’s a tad much though when things you hunt 95% of the time (not end game bosses) you can kill in 1 swing 50% of the time

[Rakash]

Correct, I'm leveling a dev crit dual wielder at the moment, and most normal mobs I can kill in 1 round because a dev crit will proc. But let me ask you this- is this any different than a cleric killing 5 mobs with 1 implosion (I've seen this happen) or a sorc timestopping 10 mobs and aoeing them all down? Its just that the WM can hit 1 target really hard which is what it is built for.

What I would be concerned about is if 1 class could solo the bloodcultists or Shalnath - they seem to be geared toward party play, and I have yet to see any build that can solo the bloodcult area or solo kill Shalnath.

But, I do see the point that Dev crit is currently the best option, hands down, when it comes to making a fighter offensive. Which I think was the intention of the feat considering all the requirements for it.

[Jake_Master]

The difference is A - 95% of the time playing your not fighting Shalnath or bloodcult, so for regular play, it’s a bit much and B - a caster is suppose to be stronger, casters will always be the “elite”

Like I said it’s not make or break for me, but if BSK ever gets back to RP, PvP, etc. from it prominence back in the day I see this taking a little fun out of it

In addition against regular monsters (which you are fighting most of the time) it’s a tad overpowering

Now if ya wanna start a delicate topic let’s talk forge stone drops lol jk

[Garek]

I hit a 700 with a +5 hammer and regular sockets... I think it is a bit overpowering. As cool as it is to hit that much damage I do believe it is a bit much, fully forged weapon and lvl 40 I’ll be swinging 1000’s on a Crit. Hope to see some implication of Dev Crit but maybe something a little dimmed down compared to this. One Crit in pvp and most people are dead, mine as well try and make the fort save instead. I foresee abuse of scimmys, rapiers, and duel wield WMs to abuse this, which in turn yes people will just build PMs, but how cheesy is that.

If your numbers are legit that means it's broken. No way to get 140 base damage on a hit with a +5EB weapon.

Maybe the x1 multiplier is still a good idea, just not working as intended.

I say let Driller investigate before jumping ship or raging on how OP it is just yet.

[driller]

Ok, I went back and tested it and it isn't working the way it was intended. Look for a change after the next reset.

-driller