BSK Facelift! Lets think outside the box!

[Hordack]

Soz sence DM thought my idea's where in the wrong forum post I decided to start new one for myself.

First remeber this is a opinon post and not everyone not going like what a Veteran like myself has to say (I have played BSK going on 5 years now)

#1 Total compelete redo of BSK areas, add more dungeon area's, use more of the new tiles sets, add new types of critter's and give the world newer look and theme.

#2 Delete the untire server vault, make everyone start over from zero, remove most immunities from game unless its a drop item and no immunties sold in stores. Limit haste by allowing more mounts to be used and giving a reason for people to take riding skills and riding combat feats.'

#3 Fire all the DM staff. Start a fresh brand new DM staff with people willing to run events not on a monthly basis but weekly or even daily basis. Find DM's who are willing to dedicate 2-3 nights a week to the server and who are dedicated to the server and the player's.

#4 Staff actualy should listen to suggestions of the player's and not blow them off.

Now if your as open minded as me and think outside the box and actualy have good idea's on how we can expand this thread please feel free to post them here ... but if you wish to flame me for my opinons please send them to my PM box.

Hordack

[Wzorin]

Why delete all characters? This would just p..s people off.

[tropiofCancer]

Wouldn't piss me off , not if it gave BSK the balance and overhaul it needs to make it the mecca of NWN servers it use to be . You gotta face the facts , there's no salvaging any sense of balanvce to the game with 50%+ immunities to damage and +3 universal saves on all your gear . There was a time when you could get 5 types of damage on a single weapon and +7 ac bonuses but it was decided that too was too much and nerfed accordingly although there still are weapons like that around if you look hard enough . If Hordack and I accept a character wipe then believe me , most of the players will be getting off cheap there's no telling how much gear we have . The amber weapons I have mean nothing compared to having a good place to game .
Too many CEP tilesets cause a tremendous amount of lag but I would love to see some 1.69 tiles in BSK .
Haste really isnt that big a deal to me I suggested it mainly for the same reason Hordack did , it would make horses and the feats out now more than just aesthetics . toning down monk speed and AC would just be a perk along with quicken spell being a viable feat .
I don't completely agree with firing the DM staff . Alot of them really do try and bring some life to the game , They got lives like the rest of us (most of us maybe) and they can't always sit in front of their computer soley for our entertainment .
It wasn't long ago that their was a thread up asking for ideas for a new GameWorld , I'm down for that as well but you still got a damn good one here and it can get better . Servers (good ones) constantly change and grow the ones that don't fade away or they join that 0/40 cliche' .

[Hordack]

A persons RP and Character is not about their Gear but about the Story and world they play in .... I have all the gear in the world stored on mules and the such, but does me no good if everytime I come on the server there is no RP or stories going and nothing to do. Unlike some people making characters just to make characters and finding forge stones is boring as hell.

When comes to DM's sorry my opinon stands on this one .... get rid of them all .... start fresh

[Axe Madness]

would only take a few days to 2 weeks to start seeing first crew of lvl40s then that crew would start farming in areas that it can handle then they would become the economy of the server till next wave comes in this could work ^_^

[monrast]

Character deletion is a little harsh i think concidering the amout of time dedicated to some of them, possible solution is to go half way.

In theory, not like i'm an uber scripter or anything as i've only been doing it myself for 2 months, but i think it is possible that an on enter script can be made to ID any items in a characters inventory that have been deamed too uber to remain in the game. These items can then be either removed/nerfed down to acceptable levels and/or cash value of their reduction/removal given.

That'd be down to a more skilled scripter, but as far as my understanding currently goes that should work. might be a touch laggy on the first entry of a mule loaded with loads of such items, but any such lag caused by the script should be only high the first time.

Anyway thats my 2 copper pieces

[Capt Cliff]

Outside the box? This is outside the BSK PW universe!!! Whole new server ... beta testing everything for play balance. Do we keep the forge? So make this like WIndhill? Pan did a great job on Windhill ... I was driven away by bogus DM's killing everyone in sight!

Built it and they will come??? But we know BSK works ... it did for a long time ... Now a parallel server to BSK that IS outside the box might be cool but let's not kill the golden goose!

[Axe Madness]

well far as the character. . the level and gear doesn't affect the over all rep of the character or even it's background as hordack said. . now with the idea of nerfing immunitys resistance spells and haste would also mean driller would have to edit most of the monsters to bring this most wanted ''balance'' to the game if he was to leave it like this and remove all people have suggested better hire a cleric and pale master cuz your gana die heres another suggestion throw out there i recall a time where bsk had dev crit and umgah captains killed people all the time because of it so did many other monsters now if theres a way add it and still prevent player's from having it even better

[tropiofCancer]

I don't agree with that at all Axe Madness , The monsters wouldnt have to be touched at all other than mixing up their weapons so every tyrannoid , Umgah etc doesnt deal one type of damage . When you start taking away the damage immunities you start forcing players to use their feats , class abilities and spells rather than putting on all your piercing gear and farming an area then come to the forums and complain that your character who isnt taking any damage isnt finding forgies . Even BSK's all powerful PaleMater builds wouldnt be beyond reproach when they too start taking damage . Yeah the sneak attacks by every monster you encounter may need toning down but not much else . Dev Crit I have never seen on any server I've played on so I couldnt tell you much about it . The server I play on no one is Immune to crits or sneaks and the monsters dish them out too , Its very rare you see a PaleMaster that isnt a caster . As for hiring a cleric to survive?..to me that should be a given , Old school PnP right there , fighters to the front with the casters to the rear and thieves hiding in the shadows or scouting the next room . I may have posted on the wrong forum cause I think what Cliff wanted was more visual things instead of changing the game play . From my perspective though if I were interested in that I would play NWN2 or Elder Scrolls .

[ST_DM_Myle]

A character wipe?
If you wipe the playerbase the only real change will be that it will take the power grinders a few days to two weeks to produce the new level 40 hierarchy.

An inventory wipe?
If you wipe the inventory, then yes, the uber items that have remained will be gone, but it will only take a few weeks for everyone to figure out the new combo of what the 'best gear' is for each built type. Powerful items are not really the problem... The problem is that people dump all the powerful items onto power-builds and then try to bully everyone else..... sometimes 'claiming to RP' or otherwise directing all their RP into must CvC situations.



If you want to know the real problem with BSK...... The real problem is not a thing people want to hear... it is kinda simple.

Regarding the server:
The server was taken down long enough for a large percentage to the established playerbase to find new homes. The server was then brought back up for a while and was slowly recovering when the server was taken down a second time 'for good'. Everyone then left to find new places to play and then BSK was suddenly back up again. Most veterens and established RP'rs either did not return or only return on a parttime bases - keeping their primary RP and play time to other servers.

Regarding the players:
BSK has always been more of an Action Server that encourages Roleplay than anything else. The magic items have always had a high end uberness. Leveling was never really all that hard. Sure, it took me almost 9 months to get my first character to 40th - but I RP'd like a fiend. My second character took me 1 month to get to 40 and later, with my first powerbuild, it only took me 2 weeks. Yet, there are people on this server who can level to 40 in a single weekend.

The problem is that 'most of the time' the RP players had weak builds. The powerbuilders would crank out a level 40 and then try to jump into RP that nearly always resulted into some version of 'lets fight'. When the RP'rs refused to bow to the powerbuild characters plans for world domination (or worse managed to win a fight) things would explode out of control.

It wasn't until the RP'rs started making power builds that they could regularly compete.....
but then....
that meant the RP'rs were spending their time grinding out builds rather than RP'ing...

Lets not forget the number of players who would make mutliple copies of the same character, name them all the same, dress them all the same, but have specialized builds for all situations and/or seed them through hook or crook all over the server.... often by sneaking somewhere, setting a recall stone, and then waiting to log in and appear at the given location until it was advantageous...... while still playing the characters 'other incarnations' activily.

Cheating, in all the many forms, soured many potentially excellent RP scenerios.



Regarding DM's:
BSK has mostly been a wild west styled server with the in game experience being very much a frontier type of place. Action oriented players always seemed to want a more opened and free form style of play. The RP oriented players always pushed for more clear cut rulings and support from the DM's and Driller. Often the DM's would advocate for their own style of play and even make rulings based on their prefered style.... even sometimes when they'd been told by Driller not to do so.

Driller has had to fire many DM's for various abuses or violations of rules put in place for players and/or DM's. Several DM's 'resigned' or were allowed to 'retire' to save face and return to the player base without stigma. Most eventually left the server anyways.

Driller has wiped and reconstituted the DM team several times. I know that while I was still only on as a player he wiped the DM team two different times and after I was on as a DM, he wipe the DM team once and performed a purge another time. When Luc was stepping into a more administrative role he also purged the DM team. Each step of these wipes or purges - some DM's were not welcomed back - some were.

The activity of DM's, however, is generally responsive to player activity. If players are willing to RP - the RP DM's will run events. If players want to hack~n~slash - the H~n~S DM's will appear to run a slaughterfest. If players want to just mill about or grind for XP - DM's will find more interesting things to consume their time.
... and there in lay much of the problem of late... players say they want DM activity - but the players often don't participate or offer complaints that there isn't enough action or they don't pay attention to the NPC's or they attack the NPC's or they chatter OOC and create distractions or they run off on their own and pitch a fit when the DM is 'stupid' and does not treat them like the center of the world.

Sure... some of the DM's are completely absent - or appear that way to players. Some, like myself, rarely log-in... and spend most of our time moderating the forums and/or advice to some of the newer/more active DM's.
But having absentee DM's is not a problem. It is just a whipping point for players with nothing more imaginative to point out.

DM's are all volunteers. Any organizer or Admin can tell you that a good volunteer who can only show up a few times a year is better than none. Driller recuits DM's as carefully as he can. It is not as simple as tossing someone the password and hopeing for the best. If a DM goes bad it can have dramatic effect on the server as a whole.
It can ruin an economy.
It can taint the balance of power between factions.
It can give undeserved success to unworthy players.
It can make entire sections of the playerbase leave the server.
It can and usually does have repercussions long after the DM is removed.

DM's also tend to burn out much more easily than expected. Players often join the DM ranks with stars in their eyes and all kinds of great plans.... a long list of easy things to improve the server. Months, weeks, sometimes just days later the new DM's contact the veteren DM's with confusion and frustration because of the confounding attitudes of many of the players.

This cycle of disillusionment of new DM's is not going to change with a new DM wipe.

And the number of current DM's does not stop the Admin from selecting new DM's (should any suitable options present themselves).



Regarding competition:
Several other servers were created or exisiting in various states of production during those times that BSK went down.

CyberMagi had been working on Windhill when Hordack joined to help her.
Jazelle had been working on Legends of Talan'ith when I joined to to help her.
Dorrian and Shimmer had Newcastle up and had made great progress.
Amia absorbed many of the BSK players, as did KK, Arelith and a few other servers.

Since Windhill, LoT, NC are all RP servers - the RP'rs started off bouncing between them. NC, being the most completed and most often updated, attracted the majority of players.
Amia and Arelith are both more strict RP servers, but they were generally full at 75/75 already before BSK was down.
KK is RP, technically, but is so sexually oriented that it really only serves a specific clique of players.


Overall:
The best change that could take place is for the players who want more activity.... is for those players to be more active, to RP and to participate.

It is player activity that drives a servers success.

You ask any vet player or DM when the 'best times' on BSK was and they will recount the periods of active player factions, collaborations and the DM's providing a menace that the PC's struggled to either support or defeat. These were times when players continued the RP amoung themselves whether DM's were online or not. These where times when the politics of factions were engaged and honored and scoundrels scurried around behind the scenes to undermine their foes... Times when players would have OOC discussions and work to resolved misunderstandings rather than metagaming them into IC situations.

But it boiled down to player activity, cooperation and coordinated conflicts.




Because the characters builds, uber gear and DM events really do not make or break a server as much as participation between the players.


But.... people don't want to hear that they have to step up. They want to provide a list of things for others to do. They always want others to provide the components for success and then reap the rewards from others effort.

Want the server to be more successful? You need not think outside the box. All that is needed is what was always needed:
Participate.
Simple.

Myle

[Mask-inc]

Myle, you got one more fan... =D> =D> =D> =D>
Participate...why didn't anyone tought about that one


Mask

[Alter Fritz]

I would have to agree with Cliff here, this would be way outside the BSK box. Your talking of another PW all together. I am not saying that would be a bad idea, in fact Driller asked if the community was interested in one not too long ago.

I don't think its fair to try to blame the DM team for the recent slow down on BSK, firing all the DMs isn't the answer. There are some good DMs still active on the staff. I do think those that aren't active online should step down, and let the server evolve without them.

It sounds like Myle is saying its all the players fault. I don't think its fair to blame the players either.

Myle is right that with the two shut downs, many players have left and not returned. Sooo... I guess the players that are actually playing will just have to start over. The server doesn't have to be whipped for it to start over. The players that are active should just contact DMs and start whatever organizations they would like and the DMs should back them up. When things start to pick up, and old players try to return and reclaim thier positions as head of factions, the DMs should politely notify them of thier loss and allow them to join guilds(starting at the bottom).

I think we can all agree that the downslide of BSK was the shutdowns. So I think its safe to say its NWN2's fault. Lets stop pointing fingers as to why. If you don't like the way BSK is now, and you are a DM-step down. If you don't like the way BSK is now, and you are a Guild leader-step down and post it on the forums. Other players and DMs will pick it up and run with it. I would say if anything needs to be whipped, it would be all the guilds and guild leaders. A fresh start there, in my opinion, would fire up the RP again.

Whipping gear, immunities, and characters would really make no difference. As many have stated, it would take only a few weeks for the new lvl 40 characters to sort out the best gear and builds. Same goes for passing on items and rebuilding characters....WHO CARES!! If one person's style of play differs from yours, get over it. Try to ignore the fact that you know that person has a rebuilt character, and just be that great RPer. A player that collects items and gear, saving it on mules to outfit thier characters, is no different than the crafter that most have with a mountain of forge stones.

Hard-core RPers complaining about Hard-core Hack-n-slashers, and vice versa... blah, blah, blah. Try to do both. Role play your Hack-n-slash-power-build, or try to grind out a good build for your RP character.

Some have worked or weasled thier way to the top of a guild and then stop playing, or move on to other games. This is worse in my opinion than a DM that only runs an event once a month.

[Hordack]

Want the server to be more successful? You need not think outside the box. All that is needed is what was always needed:
Participate.
Simple.

Myle

*coughs* hate tell you this I am 1 of those 2 lonely players on for few hours a Day Monday, tuesday, wedesday, and Saturday. Really funny is I see Mask on more then you so if your going to talk the walk better be able to walk the walk.

And the issue if Guilds .... well kinda hard to recruit people if the other person won't talk to you ... so my guild remains a guild of one until BSK once again reaches good number's .... Oh when comes to RP well haven't seen a "good" events for sometime.

I would respone more, but just trying to prove a little theory I am working on ....

[Axe Madness]

myle nice one =D> =D>

far as whipping all political standings guilds members leaders etc. .sounds like a plan to me can either A) have players fork over the items to enter a given guild or B) have a script do it then....once it all starts pick up let people try to lead by RP or a ooc agreement example hey i feel i could lead the evil badies of the server or goodies given the person! once player count picks up i'm sure all or at lest most of the old BSK vets have BSK still on the favorite list lest i do

[Cybermagi]

I have refrained from putting my two cents into these sort of posts for numerous reasons.
but.......

#1 A server wipe is a bad idea. there are some new players that would be harmed by such a action.
and many long time players, whom don't "cheat" that also would be harmed.

#2 I care less about the DM staff.. I've never had any problems with the staff and on the ONE time there was a misunderstanding it was all handled fairly.
calls and counter calls for staff or guild leaders removals are mostly driven by OOC Drama and Personal vendetta's
none of which I'll have a part in. if you draw staff or admin attention.. 99% of the time you fricken deserve it.
I've been playing here forever. and have had 1 .. count them 1.. problem with the staff and it was resolved fairly and without OOC bullshit

#3 I say any guild master that is MIA.. then the guild is passed to the next senior.. and so and so on.. if no one is left from the guild
then said guild by default passes to the public domain and at the server admins pleasure gets reassigned to another willing player for whatever purpose they deem fit.

#3 update the Tilesets, this is so easy to do... no need to change anything major.. just rework the zones and transistions to match what we have..etc

#4 Update/Change the quests.

#5 Fix the crafting - cloaks would be a biggie.. a nice little Dye Mirror would be a fine addition.

#6 Get rid of the Slashing/Peirce Immunities..this is a wild west server, but the uber slash immunities make taking a longsword a waste if you wish to do any sort of PvP.

#7 Some new zones (driller has said he's open to adding some) if you want to add a zone..etc..open the darn tool set make one then submit it to driller.. if he likes it, great! if not then try again.

#8 Stop whining and play on the server.. players draw other players.. if someone logs and looks for a server to join and sees a server full of people they are more likely to check it out. So, Put up or shut up.

#9 Help the new players, hand out some loot, I've tossed out millions in forgies and gear, let's face it, all the stuff some of us old folks are hording, we're never gonna use, give some to a few new players that will put it to good use.

Overall the ruleset and flavor of BSK are fine as they are
It just needs to be updated with some minor tweaks.
We can do without the stupid OOC bullshit between players and staff and players vs players.

just my two cents..

ttfn