Stacking soak and reduction

[Thanatos]

Le sigh....

Hordy...you just had to post something like that, didn't you? LOL

Anyway...yes, your character is pretty formidable. But he's just a scroll-jockey bud...just a scroll jockey. That you actually use those tactics in battle is comical.

That's like the equivalent of beating up a midget. If you win, big whoop...you beat up a midget. If you lose...you suck and should probably roll with the "/quitlife" command.

And in my eyes, nothing's better than watching that scroll jockey, that you've never said a single word to, come out of nowhere to TS, then Harm you..., scroll jockey for some divine dmg, then stand there for a couple minutes swinging at you for 1-2 dmg before they have to use a 2nd Harm...then break out the magic missile wands.

Notice I used the term "watching" because I didn't bother swinging a single time. I sat there and laughed & pointed at my monitor the entire time. I may have even spit some beer on the monitor initially as well.

Now...ON TOPIC:

Hordy's post, while a bit self-absorbed, isn't that far off in my opinion. I really couldn't care less which way things go to be honest. The end result for the players will remain as it always is...we'll have to build some more chars. Anyone who knows me, knows I've spent most of my time grinding out chars anyways. It's what I do. No major problems for me. On the other side, however, I feel that the repurcussions of some things sometimes results in more work for the DM's/Admins than is worth it (i.e. now we have to nerf this, then that, then another thing....etc.) I honestly don't feel as if things are that unbalanced that we need to risk something of this nature.

My name is Thanny and there's my 2 cents.

[ST_DM_Myle]

Capping Imunities without nerfing the items is a reasonable solution that will have the least disruptive effect.

Capping AC's is a bit dubious because- for the most part... High AC means either low AB or low damage... which balances out.

I think that it would be better to identify what is actually 'broken' if anything... that results in characters that are more powerful than the server is designed for.


Myle

[Hordack]

that's "Mr. Scroll, Wand, Potion Jockey" to you big tough thick Dwarf ... and if I didn't keep the mages, druids and clerics in business who else would.

But seriously ... I don't see a need to "nerf" or change anything, because really I don't see in my opinon anything "broken".

Besides I am getting tired of making new character's to beat this person or that person. I thought we are here to RP? Or am I wrong?

But I am with you Thanny I do agree with the points you made.

[driller]

The problem is that the max AB is somewhere around 80, but the Max AC is well over 100.

-driller

Capping Imunities without nerfing the items is a reasonable solution that will have the least disruptive effect.

Capping AC's is a bit dubious because- for the most part... High AC means either low AB or low damage... which balances out.

I think that it would be better to identify what is actually 'broken' if anything... that results in characters that are more powerful than the server is designed for.


Myle

[Alamore-Threepwood]

max ab is accualy higher then 80, you gotta remember taunt, one of my builds, if taunt fires off (pretty good chance it will) 82 ab, but also, the builds with "100 ac" tend to use improved expertise, and low ab... so like highest I can think of with that much ac is 52 ab, most fighters with good gear have like what? 60 - 70 ac?
So you end up with a really, really, really long battle.

[Thanatos]

max ab is accualy higher then 80, you gotta remember taunt, one of my builds, if taunt fires off (pretty good chance it will) 82 ab

AB doesn't technically change. Their AC does however, but it's really only a provisional change dependant on them making the DC check.

The problem is that the max AB is somewhere around 80, but the Max AC is well over 100.
-driller

That's not really that big of a problem in the hands of a good builder. Dan did just fine. Roland and Duo seem to do pretty well. Alamore seems to have a good handle on the situation, as does the TOC and others. I, myself, haven't bothered to cook a build for the AC-mongers as of yet. But it's not terribly difficult to do. But that AC/AB ratio seems to be the norm around most servers I've been on.

[Cybermagi]

I've refrained from posting to this thread for numerous reasons..*wink*
but....
the AC and Immunes are a bit wacked AC's of 100? + geeze
and 50% immune to ANYTHING is crazy..
if ya gonna have that high slashing immunes why drop slashing weapons in loot
IMHO no player should have more than 50% immune to ANYTHING
the resist is good as is.. but immunes.. crazy
I'd rework to take Immunes to slash/peirce/bluge/ lower max 25-50% or gone all together

just a my personal view


ttfn
*hugs driller*

[Alamore-Threepwood]

The firing off comment was to the roll, sorry, using my own made up slang XD, so when I say fires off = the roll was successful / it worked.

[tropiofCancer]

Guys I won't be leaving the server if BSK hoods arent nerfed lol . It was just an observation and suggestion I wanted to share with the community of people who I game with . I like the idea of maxing or capping damage immunities , I think if someone or something in the epic level range should hit you then it should at least leave some kind of mark . (except maybe for DD,Barb , or soaker builds that have trade offs to attain it ). In alot of ways I agree with Myles, I like low magic servers but that in itself opens up a huge can of worms . A +20 weapon negates Epic Warding which in the Hands of a PaleMaster makes them absolutely immune to physical damage , anyone with the epic spell could walk through almost any area completely beyond reproach from any physical attack . Drillers thoughts on Armor Class being too high is something we should probably discuss and explore as well and here are my thoughts on that as it is relevant to the topic at hand . To load yourself down with 75-100% damage immunity and then add in damage reductions (say a Greater Belt) requires the skill of a brain damaged chimp , But take a high AC build that took some time and thought to create (say Mauric for instance) then that is something that should be applauded and rewarded . Even with a high AC game mechanics still come into play , Basically you got a 5% to roll a 20 then you also get 4 + attacks per round as well , those are better than Vegas odds and me personally I can live with it but yeah I would like to see AC capped as well .
I gotta put my two cents in as well concerning Scroll Jockeying . I think alot of People misunderstand Hordy . I played with that cat for a few years and I can tell you w/o a doubt that he's a true hardcore RPer . I consider him a friend and someone I have always enjoyed playing with , If he didnt PP or otherwise Harry my paladin characters I would be offended . What some people forget though is that BSK is an RP Lite server , It caters to alot of different players w/ various playing styles who may take offence to being accosted in the Hamlet . If you wanna say using Harm,Mord,TS scrolls is being inventive then why stop there..Why not have your buddy spam your vic w/ "invites" blinding them while you IGM the life out of him . To me its just poor gaming and something that has no place here.
And Thanny..for not agreeing with me the next time I see you I will be putting your height challenged %$#@ in a figure four leg lock until you scream out in "Shout Chat' .."Gabrial is my babies daddy!"

[Dan8145]

[quote="driller"]The problem is that the max AB is somewhere around 80, but the Max AC is well over 100.

-driller


94 AB for melee and 95 AB for ranged

And I wouldn't say 'well over' 100..but hey.

And if you want me to tell you what builds get those AB..a pleasure.

[tropiofCancer]

It still amazes me how many people who have been here for so long still think that +1 per 5 Ranger levels still stacks , you get the +2 from Bane of Enemies and thats it . And I dont care if your cleric/WM build is 60th lvl your buffs wont stack using a +20 weapon . Dont let the numbers on your character sheet fool you as to what your actully rolling on the combat screen. Driller is correct the max ab your gonna get w/ a melee w/o taunt is 80 , 82 if you want to be completely worthless in any situation not involving another melee . Ranged characters w/ enough Arcane Archer lvls can get a 90 ab but what good is it when your fighting someone w/ 35% piercing resist using a greater archers belt. Dan I believe your swan song melee build fared pretty poorly versus Cervs dexer. (Toman vs. Mauric)
Once again it doesnt come down to being able to hit its wheither or not you cause damage when you do .

[Dan8145]

Thanks for the lesson but my numbers are right. Nothing to do with ranger, nothing to do with Toman (had 75 AB). And Mauric is nothing...try fighting a dexer WM with 74 AB and over 100 parry...Amber or not....goodnight.

To clarify;

Fighter/WM/Pally


Criteria: Evil opponent, max STR, Max CHA, able to taunt him max. +20 weapon.

AB
55
+6 DEX
+20 Sword
+6 Taunt
+9 Smite
96

I managed 92 in a ranger/Bard/Pal and a fighter/Bard/Pal.

You were saying?

[DM Nexus]

I managed 92 in a ranger/Bard/Pal and a fighter/Bard/Pal.

You were saying?

But on BSK you can not make a bard/Paladin build. Bards cannot be lawful.

I believe the 80 AB was not taking in Smite Evil. So yes smite evil (or smite good) can boost up your AB for up to 3 shots.

[Roland Deschain]

You can't always smite them... and if it is ohh say a mage with a high con and epic skill conc your taunt may not fire. SO the AB that Driller is talking about is Base AB, same with AC. Driller did not mix into the fact feats or skills that remove AB or AC or add AB or AC.

if you do this you have Curse Song, Lets say level 14 bard. -2 ac -3 ab.
Bibgy's interposing -10 AB
Imp Expertise +10 AC etc etc

Also Taunt (unless stage taunt is used) makes you flat-footed, which means you will get hit more.

And the parry WM is not useful on bsk, there are not enough parry items.

(The Parry build was made by Markon and myself for ToN, due to having 3 +10 parry items available )

So I see your point that high AC builds can be beat with melee, but the criteria is not always met. So you will have people who know not to make their character evil unless the RP calls for it. And most high ac builds that are made for PvP have high conc to avoid taunt. ( or at least mine do )

With the exception of Mauric and the parry builds (which are really not applicable for talking about on blackstone) the high ac builds that are a pain to deal with are the PM melee builds. Immune to crits + high ac Makes them rather hard to deal with when another melee is fighting them. (unless they use a good crafted bludge weapon)

[tropiofCancer]

Thanks for the lesson but my numbers are right. Nothing to do with ranger, nothing to do with Toman (had 75 AB). And Mauric is nothing...try fighting a dexer WM with 74 AB and over 100 parry...Amber or not....goodnight.
I managed 92 in a ranger/Bard/Pal and a fighter/Bard/Pal.
You were saying?

Well if you wanna add in variables why not add in Darkness and an assortment of other circumstance rolls , its not ab. As far as parry goes.. , It works on the first attack in the Bioware engine no matter what the skill description says. As for fighting dexer WMs I have , alot of them . If you depend on smite for AB you will have your heart broke , Next time you log on ToN ask Dorrian how evil his Bard/PM/BG was lol . Sure you can say "well if you do this and he does this and doesnt Mord or hit you w/ Silence then your ab will be so and so"..and if a frog had pockets he would carry a gun to shoot snakes . I wouldnt offer people builds they will only be disappointed by when they hit lvl 40..night.