Random Item Property Remover Nerf

[driller]

It would work like the wand does now, but would be specific to the Forge and a stone.

...
If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

This seems promising, but could you expand on this a bit, so we (or just me) understand what you mean?

[Tard]

Getting into the conversation, and items that did not depend on blue forgestone, how will they? Well there will be people who will have very uneven items compared to novice players ...

[driller]

Give an example.

Getting into the conversation, and items that did not depend on blue forgestone, how will they? Well there will be people who will have very uneven items compared to novice players ...

[Sorcy Sid]

My suggestion is to leave it as is and let the wand be another 'secret' you learn about and then experiment with. Just create new monsters, areas, that can challenge the arms race the players are in with the monsters. This way the players have a more positive reaction to their creations and luck. Then the server has the appeal of being uniquely ''unlimited'' and long time players dont feel held back or punished with new restrictions on their fun.

Granted, if the players create something that comes close to "God Mode" then by all means take action.

Also, this entire discussion should be deleted since it's a spoiler.

It would work like the wand does now, but would be specific to the Forge and a stone.

...
If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

This seems promising, but could you expand on this a bit, so we (or just me) understand what you mean?

[Tard]

Give an example.

Getting into the conversation, and items that did not depend on blue forgestone, how will they? Well there will be people who will have very uneven items compared to novice players ...

Items that had negative properties, these properties were removed to remain only the interesting property of that item and later crafted to stay as intended ... older players will have these items, while the beginners with no chances ...

[Sorcy Sid]

IMO, your best work was when someone bragged about their cakewalk and you added a new royal guard. You didn't punish the players. You just matched the arms race with them.

[driller]

No matter how you try to frame the argment as thus, this isn't a punishment as I have explained before. This is a handful of players who have enough resources to abuse this wand.

That's why I suggest making it into a stone that must be collected instead of a wand that you can use over and over an unlimited number of times until you get what you want.

IMO, your best work was when someone bragged about their cakewalk and you added a new royal guard. You didn't punish the players. You just matched the arms race with them.

[driller]

Please read the part where I mention adding a stone that you can use at the forge that would allow properties to be removed(except class restrictions and such). Also, how many items actually have negative properties? Very few.

Give an example.

Getting into the conversation, and items that did not depend on blue forgestone, how will they? Well there will be people who will have very uneven items compared to novice players ...

Items that had negative properties, these properties were removed to remain only the interesting property of that item and later crafted to stay as intended ... older players will have these items, while the beginners with no chances ...

[Tard]

I thought it was cool to put forgestone for this. I want to give a suggestion, just go back the normal items who managed to remove these properties and make this item very well used, so, from now on everyone would have to run behind only those items that were removed properties !!! Maybe it's much cooler to just put it, there's going to have to be trying to get it right !!! It makes it even better to play the server !!! Plus that's only a hint to my NWN friends !!!

[Yunim]

If some classes are missing core items, explain what they are and we will add something equivalent for that class.

Improved Invisibility wands are absolutely essential for high end runs. There is already a 54 second Displacement available from a cloak and a 3 minute invisibility available from a ring, but Improved Invisibility is needed for every character in a boss run.

Negative Energy Protection wands are also very important in level 40 areas. I can think of two mobs that cast the default Harm spell rather than the Mass Harm variant which isn't as deadly.

I will most likely change forging to overwrite existing properties to remove the main need for this item.

If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

As long as the removal forge stones aren't rare I wouldn't mind this. Restricting property removal is annoying but removing the option completely is much worse. Something else to consider is dropping Alignment/Class/Race restrictions from the random gear property table if you go ahead with the changes. I've found random gear that was worthless until I removed the restrictions on the items.

[The Flying Rodent]

Due to the fact that you can basically have unlimited gold and items. The original risk of the wand has been nullified.

It is now just a mundane process you have to go through to remove item restrictions. It means you can use stuff that was originally meant to be unique to a class. This isn't a punishment, this is closing a loophole.

Again, if there are items that certain classes need and are absent, then let me know. Also, I believe that changing the Forge to overwrite will fix most of these issues. (This is currently in effect for blues at the moment.)

If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

I’m failing to see how removing certain properties from items is allowing people to make money, as negative properties do not increase nor decrease the value of an item (at least , they don’t do anything in the NWN toolset). I suppose I can see some problems regarding items that are ‘meant’ to be class restricted though, such as Holy Avenger Paladin Weapons (which bypass UMD) , but again, I cannot see how the RIPR could be used to make money. This seems like a rather severe change that unintentionally is punishing a lot of players for the sake of addressing a small few, but if gutting the wand is the only solution to this problem, then fair enough I suppose.

The ability for the wand to remove Race/Alignment/Class restrictions (such as Cleric only Wands or scrolls), along with removing negative properties from items such as ‘Ancient/Masterwork/etc’ items with a hodge podge of stats but occasionally useful ones, is in my experience EXACTLY what this item is used most for. It was hardly ever used on standard forged equipment to try and correct something , so I don’t see much benefit at all restricting its’ use on things like socketed items (because they were not its’original target).

If the item was being used to generate money via something like Gruther , perhaps an alternative to gutting the wand could be to look at how he interacts with increasing the value of items and making the change there? Or perhaps limiting its’ use on specific items that are meant to be ‘unique’ to certain classes, such as Holy Avenger Weapons? Because at present, unless some sort of alternative is devised , all I can see being created is a gulf between older players with optimised ‘property removed’ items , and newer players who can never experience this luxury.

[driller]

It isn't used to make money. Players who have the money to buy items can keep using the wand to remove properties until they get what they want.
Most players cannot afford to do this. This is what I meant.

I have already determined what i am going to do.
I will remove the wand and will add a common forge stone that will take its place.
The only restrictions that cannot be removed will the class ones.

I will also make an item that you can add to the above mix that will randomly re-roll all of an items properties.

Forge->new stone->item = randomly remove a property.
Forge->new stone->item->new add in item = randomly re-roll properties.

Due to the fact that you can basically have unlimited gold and items. The original risk of the wand has been nullified.

It is now just a mundane process you have to go through to remove item restrictions. It means you can use stuff that was originally meant to be unique to a class. This isn't a punishment, this is closing a loophole.

Again, if there are items that certain classes need and are absent, then let me know. Also, I believe that changing the Forge to overwrite will fix most of these issues. (This is currently in effect for blues at the moment.)

If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

I’m failing to see how removing certain properties from items is allowing people to make money, as negative properties do not increase nor decrease the value of an item (at least , they don’t do anything in the NWN toolset). I suppose I can see some problems regarding items that are ‘meant’ to be class restricted though, such as Holy Avenger Paladin Weapons (which bypass UMD) , but again, I cannot see how the RIPR could be used to make money. This seems like a rather severe change that unintentionally is punishing a lot of players for the sake of addressing a small few, but if gutting the wand is the only solution to this problem, then fair enough I suppose.

The ability for the wand to remove Race/Alignment/Class restrictions, along with removing negative properties from items such as ‘Ancient/Masterwork/etc’ items with a hodge podge of stats but occasionally useful ones, is in my experience EXACTLY what this item is used most for. It was hardly ever used on standard forged equipment to try and correct something , so I don’t see much benefit at all restricting its’ use on things like socketed items (because they were not its’original target).

If the item was being used to generate money via something like Gruther , perhaps it would be a better idea to look at how he interacts with increasing the value of items and making the change there? Or perhaps limiting its’ use on specific items that are meant to be ‘unique’ to certain classes, such as Holy Avenger Weapons? Because at present, unless some sort of alternative is devised , all I can see being created is a gulf between older players with optimised ‘property removed’ items , and newer players who can never experience this luxury.

[The Flying Rodent]

If Class restrictions are absolutely out the window, then as Yunim has already suggested, having an Improved Invisibility and Negative Energy Protection option for non-UMD users would be useful (e.g high level Barbs/Monks/Fighters), as these buffs are currently used frequently.

[Sway]

Forge->new stone->item = randomly remove a property.
Forge->new stone->item->new add in item = randomly re-roll properties.

Great Idea. Love it. I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate not having to waste items anymore. Can't count how many scuffed Theurge Pendants i've came across

[Kane0]

Forge->new stone->item = randomly remove a property.
Forge->new stone->item->new add in item = randomly re-roll properties.

I like this idea

Improved Invisibility wands are absolutely essential for high end runs. There is already a 54 second Displacement available from a cloak and a 3 minute invisibility available from a ring, but Improved Invisibility is needed for every character in a boss run.

Negative Energy Protection wands are also very important in level 40 areas. I can think of two mobs that cast the default Harm spell rather than the Mass Harm variant which isn't as deadly.

This is unfortunate and I wish wasn't the case. Why are those things necessary? Why invest in the Self Concealment feats or rare and expensive negative protection gear when you can just wand it?