Random Item Property Remover Nerf

[Yunim]

I noticed tonight that the RIPR has been changed so that it only affects socketed items. The main reason I use the RIPR is to turn items that are ok but have some wasted properties into good base items for forging. With the recent nerf there are plenty of item properties that are no longer available on fully forged gear.

For example, Unlimited Ammo is a fairly common enchantment on random gear, but those random items usually have plenty of useless enchantments too. Instead of being able to remove the useless enchantments and forge the Unlimited Ammo weapon into something decent, there is no longer an option to do so.

Extra Melee Damage is another useful enchantment that is only available from random gear (with very few exceptions). With this nerf the chances of finding a useful EMD weapon is even lower than it already was.

Can you consider changing the RIPR so that it isn't as useless as it currently is please.

[The Flying Rodent]

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3437

Another good thing about the RIPR remover , discussed in this thread when it was brought up, was that it allowed classes that didn't index into UMD or spellcasting [Barbarian, Fighter, Monk] to not have to worry about missing out on what I'd consider 'Core Magic Items', such as Improved Invisibility wands. Most high end builds already do this, so they won't be effected, but it does hurt builds like high level Monks or Barbarians to suddenly have 'no' option to use items like this. Which just diminishes the pool of useful/fun character builds in the long run.

Was there a reason for the nerf? Is there a certain class of item that's currently being viewed as too overpowered when combined with the RIPR?

[Noli]

This change is not fair for ppl who dont exploit the pre-nerf RIRP, Becouse now, we cant get items with good forged stats, and ppl who did it before the nerf yes. So this will be unfair for pvp and pve. For example, me as a tank, i cant get +6 ac on a shield with good stats and +2 shit ac, and ppl who get the same shield before, allready have +6 ac and inmunitys on it.

Also, Dove harp and ring of nine lifes are useless after they nerf ( DH heals x 100), becouse you use it for shally, and now you cant tank him without a healer.

Sorry for my bad english.

[driller]

Abuse if this item was brought to my attention from one of the DMs. If some classes are missing core items, explain what they are and we will add something equivalent for that class.

I will most likely change forging to overwrite existing properties to remove the main need for this item.

[Noli]

I will most likely change forging to overwrite existing properties to remove the main need for this item.
[/quote]

That will be a really good and balanced solution.

[sphinx]

I must be missing how it was abused. It randomly removed stats off an item so there is no way to know what it will remove. It could destroy a nice piece you are trying to get a couple stats off of or it could take just the right stats off.

Could I ask how it was abused? I have played nwn a long time but I am still a novice.

[Sorcy Sid]

I have to agree with the others on nerfing the RPR, and the nine lives ring. One reason I started playing BSK more often is because of the ability to make new items and take on mobs that I previously could not.

IMO, the RPR is just like the forge. You take your chances trying to make something useful. Especially when so many useful things are dependent on luck to acquire. And on top of that a certain amount of luck to forge.

I think you are going at it backwards. Instead of punishing the individual players, soloists, create more runs that require cooperative players. That pushes the players to experiment, think, and plan more for their encounters.

From what I have heard from other players, that's what you typically have done. You made the run/boss harder when they could start to solo it.

[John-Alhoon]

I must be missing how it was abused. It randomly removed stats off an item so there is no way to know what it will remove. It could destroy a nice piece you are trying to get a couple stats off of or it could take just the right stats off...

Indeed, I am also curious!
Driller, is there another way to walk around that abuse you said?
I am asking this because from now on, this is a really unbalaced situation, since all the non-socketed items already crafted are still there, and newcommers will not be able to get the same gear. Ever.
If that abuse you are talking about has big implications, I would accept nerfing every single already crafted item, for balancing reasons.
Otherwise this is a seriously unbalancing change.

[tiagobigode]

I must be missing how it was abused. It randomly removed stats off an item so there is no way to know what it will remove. It could destroy a nice piece you are trying to get a couple stats off of or it could take just the right stats off...

Indeed, I am also curious!
Driller, is there another way to walk around that abuse you said?
I am asking this because from now on, this is a really unbalaced situation, since all the non-socketed items already crafted are still there, and newcommers will not be able to get the same gear. Ever.
If that abuse you are talking about has big implications, I would accept nerfing every single already crafted item, for balancing reasons.
Otherwise this is a seriously unbalancing change.

exactly

[Noli]

For example in the case of Dove Hap, you can remove the class restiction (bard) and use it without UMD. Thats allow you to make shally without healer. I think RONL was the same, but dunno. I really agree to DOVE nerf (after nerf was full hp heal, now is like 100+), but i dont like the idea that some ppl exploit items before the nerf, and now they have unique items that we cant get.

[driller]

I went ahead and changed the forge for blues, it will overwrite existing properties.

[driller]

Due to the fact that you can basically have unlimited gold and items. The original risk of the wand has been nullified.

It is now just a mundane process you have to go through to remove item restrictions. It means you can use stuff that was originally meant to be unique to a class. This isn't a punishment, this is closing a loophole.

Again, if there are items that certain classes need and are absent, then let me know. Also, I believe that changing the Forge to overwrite will fix most of these issues. (This is currently in effect for blues at the moment.)

If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

I have to agree with the others on nerfing the RPR, and the nine lives ring. One reason I started playing BSK more often is because of the ability to make new items and take on mobs that I previously could not.

IMO, the RPR is just like the forge. You take your chances trying to make something useful. Especially when so many useful things are dependent on luck to acquire. And on top of that a certain amount of luck to forge.

I think you are going at it backwards. Instead of punishing the individual players, soloists, create more runs that require cooperative players. That pushes the players to experiment, think, and plan more for their encounters.

From what I have heard from other players, that's what you typically have done. You made the run/boss harder when they could start to solo it.

[Cornflower]

I went ahead and changed the forge for blues, it will overwrite existing properties.

Err... Could you explain this a bit? Does a blue stone now overwrite just the properties it itself has or any properties? Not to spoil anything, but if a Blue stone gives green hair to something, does it just replace any exisiting red hair, or does it also overwrite any other extra properties such as blue eyes, big ears and large feet?

Or. Maybe I can put it like this. Say for discussion that Blue gives magic damage (which it doesn't). Does forging a blue stone to an item overwrite a) existing magic damage, b) all other damage or c) all other properties like AC, AB, damage, Haste, etc, etc?

[Cornflower]

...
If you want me to leave this mechanic in, then I think the ability to remove restrictions should itself be removed. Also, I would integrate this to the Forge itself and create a new stone that would allow the Forge to be used as the removal tool instead of a wand.

This seems promising, but could you expand on this a bit, so we (or just me) understand what you mean?

[driller]

It means if an item has +2 of something and you add a blue with a crafter who has the skill to make it a +6, then the +2 will be removed and the +6 added.

I went ahead and changed the forge for blues, it will overwrite existing properties.

Err... Could you explain this a bit? Does a blue stone now overwrite just the properties it itself has or any properties? Not to spoil anything, but if a Blue stone gives green hair to something, does it just replace any exisiting red hair, or does it also overwrite any other extra properties such as blue eyes, big ears and large feet?

Or. Maybe I can put it like this. Say for discussion that Blue gives magic damage (which it doesn't). Does forging a blue stone to an item overwrite a) existing magic damage, b) all other damage or c) all other properties like AC, AB, damage, Haste, etc, etc?