Multiple Player Character's controlled by One Person

[gniht]

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

My understanding is that the account with Ret belongs to a DM. This raises all kinds of questions, unless it's just totally legal to pk somebody for ooc reasons. Honestly I don't care much either way but I do think the rules should be clearly defined and enforced. If you don't wish to share an area with others it should be acceptable to ask them to leave, and to pk them if they don't. But, I don't actually think the current rules support that clearly... and multi-boxing certainly does make this situation a bit different either way.

[Graves]

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

My understanding is that the account with Ret belongs to a DM. This raises all kinds of questions, unless it's just totally legal to pk somebody for ooc reasons. Honestly I don't care much either way but I do think the rules should be clearly defined and enforced. If you don't wish to share an area with others it should be acceptable to ask them to leave, and to pk them if they don't. But, I don't actually think the current rules support that clearly... and multi-boxing certainly does make this situation a bit different either way.

I actually agree -- I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with PKing someone for occupying an area when they're unwelcome. It's actually conducive to griefing if someone is allowed to take your kills at a farming spot all day and not suffer any consequences.

I was really just trying to raise the point that quad-boxing is being used to PK (even if it's just me, it's still happening). Yeah, you can't control 4 characters as well as 1 person can control one, but at the end of the day, if you can have one character time stop while the rest wail on a player, you don't need much skill. It's something that new players might see and shy away from logging in if they happen to check the forums first and see posts like this one before they decide to sign in.

[driller]

The account Ret does not belong to a DM. I am the only DM here.

This is one reason I am hesitant to add DMs, as it just leads to either out right favoritism or accusations of such. Which we are starting to see the beginning of here.

Insulting someone and then having them turn on in game isn't at all surprising. But, I have already talked to Wing-Zero about this and it won't happen again.

-driller

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

My understanding is that the account with Ret belongs to a DM. This raises all kinds of questions, unless it's just totally legal to pk somebody for ooc reasons. Honestly I don't care much either way but I do think the rules should be clearly defined and enforced. If you don't wish to share an area with others it should be acceptable to ask them to leave, and to pk them if they don't. But, I don't actually think the current rules support that clearly... and multi-boxing certainly does make this situation a bit different either way.

[Graves]

The account Ret does not belong to a DM. I am the only DM here.

This is one reason I am hesitant to add DMs, as it just leads to either out right favoritism or accusations of such. Which we are starting to see the beginning of here.

Insulting someone and then having them turn on in game isn't at all surprising. But, I have already talked to Wing-Zero about this and it won't happen again.

-driller

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

My understanding is that the account with Ret belongs to a DM. This raises all kinds of questions, unless it's just totally legal to pk somebody for ooc reasons. Honestly I don't care much either way but I do think the rules should be clearly defined and enforced. If you don't wish to share an area with others it should be acceptable to ask them to leave, and to pk them if they don't. But, I don't actually think the current rules support that clearly... and multi-boxing certainly does make this situation a bit different either way.

This is getting a fair bit off-topic, so I apologize ahead of time, but I didn't insult him. I said the activity of multiboxing through group content is lame, not that a certain person is lame. The artist is separate from the art. He chose to take it as an insult and react the way he did.

Also, then, we need better clarification on the rules on when PKing is acceptable and when it's not. Currently the rules state that no PKing is allowed unless agreed upon by both parties. Is someone telling you to leave an area and you refusing considered an agreement to PvP? I think this sounds perfectly acceptable, by the way.

[gniht]

This seems a good time to revise and/or clarify what situations in which it's acceptable to attack other players.

One of the most common reasons for disputes seems to be when multiple parties occupy the same maps. If they try to coexist there are frequently issues of kill-stealing or the number of available spawns is very sparse. In these situations I think it's best if groups can simply combine, but this often doesn't happen for various reasons. I strongly dislike when I'm in an area and am paused buffing up or taking a level and another party comes in and runs right past me without saying a single word and starts farming the area. This is all too common.

There should be at least some kind of interaction. If it's not possible to work out combining parties, the groups could try to coexist, but if it's not acceptable to either party they should have the option to ask the other party to leave or fight them for the area.

I guess at the end of the day it's best to have a framework that allows players to work out their own disputes. I know not everyone relishes the idea of doing PvP, and so I think they should be given options to avoid it by leaving the area, but if the presence of another party is causing problems for you, you should be able to do something about it... while still giving them the option to avoid the fight if they so desire.

Just my 2 copper pieces.

[driller]

The problem with that is you do not own that area, they have just as much right there as you do.

But, someone intentionally grieving is cause for pvp. I consider that consent.

-driller

This seems a good time to revise and/or clarify what situations in which it's acceptable to attack other players.

One of the most common reasons for disputes seems to be when multiple parties occupy the same maps. If they try to coexist there are frequently issues of kill-stealing or the number of available spawns is very sparse. In these situations I think it's best if groups can simply combine, but this often doesn't happen for various reasons. I strongly dislike when I'm in an area and am paused buffing up or taking a level and another party comes in and runs right past me without saying a single word and starts farming the area. This is all too common.

There should be at least some kind of interaction. If it's not possible to work out combining parties, the groups could try to coexist, but if it's not acceptable to either party they should have the option to ask the other party to leave or fight them for the area.

I guess at the end of the day it's best to have a framework that allows players to work out their own disputes. I know not everyone relishes the idea of doing PvP, and so I think they should be given options to avoid it by leaving the area, but if the presence of another party is causing problems for you, you should be able to do something about it... while still giving them the option to avoid the fight if they so desire.

Just my 2 copper pieces.

[Roland Deschain]

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

Let's see the screenshots of the rest of the conversation? Otherwise this is showing the end result not the entire conversation.

Also, the out of game disagreement should have been reconciled before you asked for an invite to kill the hardest boss in the game.

[Graves]

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

Let's see the screenshots of the rest of the conversation? Otherwise this is showing the end result not the entire conversation.

Also, the out of game disagreement should have been reconciled before you asked for an invite to kill the hardest boss in the game.

Unfortunately I can't control the height of my chat window while dead, so that's the only part of the conversation I have to show, but it does contain proof of him admitting that he was PKing with multiple characters at once, and out of character. Nevermind that he was killing "the hardest boss in the game" solo by using 5 accounts (including Ret, who we know is not one of his characters, meaning he was actually using someone else's account along with his 4), which was clearly designed for group play. If Driller really wants to parse the logs to give you your answer, this happened on Thursday, May 24th at around 6:00 PM EST.

I didn't try to steal his kill, nor did I "grief" him in any way. I just stood there and watched, and did not hamper him from fighting, looting, or wrapping up. He started with the OOC insults once the boss was down, and when I returned a couple, he PKed me. I didn't even realize he was down there until I got there, and I asked for an invite before I realized who it was, thinking it was a legit group of people until I saw the names.

[gniht]

The problem with that is you do not own that area, they have just as much right there as you do.

But, someone intentionally grieving is cause for pvp. I consider that consent.

-driller

Clearly if anyone owns the area, it would be you driller.

But on a more serious note if you're doing a dungeon crawl and somebody runs right past you to kill mobs, you can't then move forward and kill them... because they're dead already. I realize the respawn rate here is faster than on many servers but still, this is an issue. Again, it's often not possible for two parties to reasonably coexist on the same map.

The criteria of what constitutes griefing is too vague as I understand it. It's impossible to screenshot and verify actions that don't involve chat messages back and forth. Several times I have messaged people regarding them stealing my kills and did not ever get a response. While sometimes this isn't intentional, it's frequently hard to believe it's not in many cases especially when the party involved won't talk to you. I think offering them the chance to leave the area before attacking seems appropriate. Maybe the existence of possible consequences will encourage people to take the time to talk instead of just ignoring you when you message them.

At the end of the day what is needed is to have a well defined framework in which one can act on their own behalf to resolve conflicts without needing any dm (er, i mean driller) intervention.

[Garek]

A good rule of thumb to go by with PvP.........if you say something in game that would cause me to punch you in the mouth in real life.........you'll probably get attacked in game.

You can't go running your mouth and not expect to get punched.

[driller]

If you are just farming an area and people run past you to kill monsters, this is no big deal to me.
But, someone waiting until you get a monster to near death then walking up and killing it is consent to pvp.
Someone insulting you or your character is consenting to pvp.
Someone engaging in a hostile act toward your character(attacking or pick pocketing) is consenting to pvp.

Just make sure you have screens to back it up. If it comes to that.

-driller

The problem with that is you do not own that area, they have just as much right there as you do.

But, someone intentionally grieving is cause for pvp. I consider that consent.

-driller

Clearly if anyone owns the area, it would be you driller.

But on a more serious note if you're doing a dungeon crawl and somebody runs right past you to kill mobs, you can't then move forward and kill them... because they're dead already. I realize the respawn rate here is faster than on many servers but still, this is an issue. Again, it's often not possible for two parties to reasonably coexist on the same map.

The criteria of what constitutes griefing is too vague as I understand it. It's impossible to screenshot and verify actions that don't involve chat messages back and forth. Several times I have messaged people regarding them stealing my kills and did not ever get a response. While sometimes this isn't intentional, it's frequently hard to believe it's not in many cases especially when the party involved won't talk to you. I think offering them the chance to leave the area before attacking seems appropriate. Maybe the existence of possible consequences will encourage people to take the time to talk instead of just ignoring you when you message them.

At the end of the day what is needed is to have a well defined framework in which one can act on their own behalf to resolve conflicts without needing any dm (er, i mean driller) intervention.

[gniht]

Awesome, thank you for the clarification.

[Wing--Zero]

*raises hand*

I was PKed by all 4 of his accounts just the other day. All I did was say quad-boxing through group content was lame in your discord channel. He took that as a personal attack somehow and decided to lash out by killing my single character with his 4 in Shalnath (not an RP reason, definitely out-of-game beef).

https://imgur.com/a/KyPLpnx

https://imgur.com/a/OfOBjcs

Let's see the screenshots of the rest of the conversation? Otherwise this is showing the end result not the entire conversation.

Also, the out of game disagreement should have been reconciled before you asked for an invite to kill the hardest boss in the game.

Unfortunately I can't control the height of my chat window while dead, so that's the only part of the conversation I have to show, but it does contain proof of him admitting that he was PKing with multiple characters at once, and out of character. Nevermind that he was killing "the hardest boss in the game" solo by using 5 accounts (including Ret, who we know is not one of his characters, meaning he was actually using someone else's account along with his 4), which was clearly designed for group play. If Driller really wants to parse the logs to give you your answer, this happened on Thursday, May 24th at around 6:00 PM EST.

I didn't try to steal his kill, nor did I "grief" him in any way. I just stood there and watched, and did not hamper him from fighting, looting, or wrapping up. He started with the OOC insults once the boss was down, and when I returned a couple, he PKed me. I didn't even realize he was down there until I got there, and I asked for an invite before I realized who it was, thinking it was a legit group of people until I saw the names.

Funny you sure were able to control the chat window to show the logs of 4 chars who killed you.......In order to do that you would have to have Respawned and scrolled back up through your logs to take that picture.......I find it funny how your first screen shot cuts off the part of you calling me a Moron and the second one HAD to be AFTER you re-spawned. Yet you say you couldn't do that to include the entire conversation of what took place? You calling me a moron ooc is greiving me btw. You've already destroyed your credibility on your own. Graves I've never seen you type anything but, ooc chat. Everything you do that i've seen is Out of Character chat....I find the fact that you try to hide behind the Rp consent rules and By the way everything I do and have done with a party I have done solo as well. I'm especially getting tired of wasting my time talking to you about this......theres nothing I need to prove/justify to you.

[gniht]

Wing-zero... you need to stop.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you starting PvP in this scenario, but I don't know what reality you're living in that makes you think in any way that it's justifiable to use multi-boxing to kill another player. You should have chosen ONE of your builds to attack with. There is absolutely no excuse and anyone who thinks this should be sanctioned? Come see me in game.

[Wing--Zero]

I'm not gonna let you drag me back into this again Gnight. I've been defending myself against quite a few false accusations and if its 1v4 or 1v1 doesn't matter outside the arena. Of course I'm gonna use whatever tools I have at my disposal to defend myself. 4v1, 3v1, 2v1 actually has happened quite often through out the history of Blackstone. I've got a char that has killed the entire Order of "The White Rose" Guild which only had 5 members but, I did kill all 5 at once(which included a 38 sorc, 38 Cleric, Bard Blackgaurd, PM, str based Fighter WM and 5th was rogue) so you gonna recommend me to not be allowed 1 char next? I agree that this needs to stop but, its not JUST me its the 4 of you and me all need to quit this on the forums its what private messages are for. I vote that this thread be deleted/locked because we've already been given our answers as to how the admin feels on the matter and pvp etiquette.