How a sage got his onions

[KuttingKew]

... Or, Number Crunching with Granthor Payne.

Granthor Payne, the Gray Orc, picked up a small bag of loot from a goblin who had suddenly found he had no further use for it. Inside he found some strange gems. He started his journey back to the Keep, and while on the road encountered a gentleman, who, for a small fee, offered to tell him all about the pieces of treasure that Granthor had acquired.
"you know, he said, these gems are interesting. If you take 1, 2 or 3 of the same color and slot them into that weapon, it will enchant your weapon with the power of an element. However, if you take 2 gems of different colors and slot them in, the enchantments will be greater than if you use 3 of the same color."
Granthor nodded, not really understanding, until he realised the gentleman was telling him two was better than three. Of course, any fool knows more is better - and so Granthor turned in a circle, hefting his scythe as he did and as gently as he could removed the head from the shoulders of the confused man. Picking up his gems, he scuffed a little dirt over the remains and continued on to the keep.

Now - who was correct ?
Well, it comes down to number crunching.
1 socket gem = 1d4 damage (type depending on color)
2 socket gems (of the same color) = 1d6 damage
3 socket gems (of the same color) = 1d8 damage
However, if you take 2 gems of different colors you get
1d4 damage of one element + 1d4 damage of another = 2d4 damage, which over all, will give you better odds of inflicting more damage than 1d8. May I suggest that - the damage for socket gems is looked at & modified slightly.
1 = 1d4 damage, 2 = 2d4 damage, 3 = either 3d4 or 2d6 damage. I know you can add 3 of the same type of socket gem to a weapon, or 2 of different types to a socket gem (or, thats the way it works with a scythe).

[shadowflame]

dont forget that if you break up the socket gems into 3 damage types you burn up 3 craftable slots on the weapon, this is where you lose out i believe. id prefere to have 1d8 and only burn up 1 craftable slot than waste 3 slots adding different socket gems, and burn up three craftable slots in the process.

[KuttingKew]

On trying to add a 3rd of any color to the scythe once 2 different colors had been added, there was a message saying this was not allowed (something about not being able to add to a weapon with 2 enchantments).

[shadowflame]

were you trying to combine an old red enchant stone with something that already had socket gems in?

[KuttingKew]

1 new character
1 new socket scythe
2 socket gem drops

take the socket gems of diff colors - add to scythe
take another socket gem & try adding to scythe - it wont let you.

Trust me, I know you cant combine the old & the new.

[arwan]

LOL ok lets clarify some stuff. we will use red and blue for this example

1 red = 1D4
2 red = 1D6
3 red = 1D8
1 red +1 blue = 1D4 1D4
2 red +1blue = 1D6 1D4

and those are the 5 different combination's (not including all the different colors and runes)

i believe you will find that the last one with 2 red and 1 blue the best combination. i will also say there is only one way to get 2 of one type and then one of another type. but once you know it.. you probably will only use it.

[KuttingKew]

.. which just reinforces the other part of what I was saying - 1d6 + 1d4 = 2-10 damage, which is better than the 1-8 damage from 3 of the same type, so by using different color socket gems, you are still going to get a better damage ratio then by going pure in one color.

[arwan]

which i think is worth it IMHO. one you have to figure that out or be told.. i was told.. and then even after being told i still had to figure it out. two.. two damage types is better than one. three.. you still need three socket items. four IMHO again. 1d6 and 1d4 is not game breaking damage i can point to builds that have been made that have magic, piercing, electrical, sonic, fire, cold, acid damage. and i also happen to know how they could toss on some divine i personally do not have this build. and dont want it.. because while it is UBER i dont think its much fun and its rather restrictive.

needless to say i saw it in action as well.. and the average NON critical hit damage was around 100 per hit.

the little extra socket gems/runes gives you is VERY nice for late game monsters. the average damage i see at end game is in the 15-25 range. and that is respectable when you consider the amount of HP the monsters have. and how easy they can hit you. and do the same or more damage to you. talking averages of 30-40

yes there are ways for us as PCs to get our weapons to do something like this

1d8(anything base damage type)+1D6(acid)+1D4(sonic)+2D6(divine)+2D6(fire)+5(enchantment)=12-41 non critical or 13-51 critical
and that can be boosted a little with spells and strength/dex say average +5 from str/dex and 1D8 fire maybe with the right build even 3D6 electrical. but as you should see. doing that requires a more and more specialized build. as well as help from a crafter in game to put some effects on your weapons threw forging.

ultimatly i think it should be possible to get a really powerful weapon but at the same time it should take a LONG time to get it. it should be something you aim for from character creation to maybe even level 30+

my personal best weapon damage actually comes from a paladin i have. with holy avenger on a bastard sword and 1D6-1D4 damage from socket gems plus smite evil/smite infidel if i get a critical hit at the same time. i can sometimes get over 100 damage. i have only done it 2 times and it made me giddy.. and even so.. neither time was it a death blow LOL.

so i guess all in all in my long winded post.. i dont see how 1D4 and 1D6 is game breaking in any way. when i see a reasonable need for the damage.

[KuttingKew]

Ahh - I wasnt saying it was game breaking - I was merely observing there was a disparity between going pure & having a mix - & suggesting that it may be possible to bring the pure element damage up to the same amount of dice damage that you can get from using a mixture. I know going pure with one type of gem will always have a disadvantage, merely by the fact that some creatures may be immune to a type of elemental damage that a weapon does. The only intention was to suggest a method of having a further disadvantage with the amount of damage dealt, by bring the pure up, rather than reducing the mixed.

[arwan]

in that case.. IMHO again. i suggest. that if you go pure you can maybe put 4 of the same type for 1D10 so that these combos are possible

1 socket item = 1D4
2 of a single socket item = 1D6
3 of a single socket item = 1D8
4 of a single socket item = 1D10

1 of one type 1 of another type of socket item = 1D4 + 1D4
2 of one type 1 of another type of socket item = 1D4 + 1D6

i think that would bring them to fairly even terms in damage. and as im writing this im thinking of calculating the chance of each number roll. so lets see how close ill do both the 4 of one type and the 2 and 1 type.

4 of one type will be quite straight forward if it was pure random. (as its a computer program there is no such thing the computer will always lean one way or another unless its a pure 50/50 chance IE 1 or 2 but anyway

1D10 rolls 1-10 each should have an equal chance to roll so every number from 1 - 10 should have a 10% chance to be hit.
1D4 each number has a 25% chance 1D6 each number has a 16.6 repeating chance to be hit. if we look at all the number combos we get
1+1 =2, 1+2 =3, 1+3 =4, 1+4 =5, 1+5 =6, 1+6 =7, 2+1 =3, 2+2 =4, 2+3 =5, 2+4 =6, 2+5 =7, 2+6 =8, 3+1 =4, 3+2 =5, 3+3 =6, 3+4 =7, 3+5 =8, 3+6 =9, 4+1 =5, 4+2 =6, 4+3 =7, 4+4 =8, 4+5 =9, 4+6 =10 (24 combos)

for
1=0%
2=4.16%
3=8.33%
4=12.5%
5=16.6%
6=16.6%
7=16.6%
8=12.5%
9=8.33%
10=4.16%
so looking at that a pure 1D10 has these odds in 10,000 rolls.
100% better chance of rolling 1 (1000 vs 0)
58.4% better chance at rolling 2 (1000 vs 416)
16.7% better chance of rolling a 3 (1000 vs 833)
-20% chance of rolling a 4 (1000 vs 1250)
-60.2% chance of rolling a 5 (1000 vs 1660)
-60.2% chance of rolling a 6 (1000 vs 1660)
-60.2% chance of rolling a 7 (1000 vs 1660)
-20% chance of rolling a 8 (1000 vs 1250)
16.7% better chance of rolling a 9 (1000 vs 833)
58.4% better chance of rolling a 10 (1000 vs 416)

of course that is if chance worked out perfectly to the math. which it shouldn't LOL.. but it should be close. if you were to graph it it should look something like this

[KuttingKew]

sigh.. it all seemed so simple when I started this thread...

[arwan]

over complication and analization is the name of the game LMAO

[Deathsinger]

I just like Acid2 +electric 1, throw in one enchanter thing and then Alucard it up to +5.