Add scrolls to drops.

[Caesius]

At the moment the current array of possible treasure is a pale shadow of what it was in BSK 1. Not to say that a server needs Purple Drops to succeed but... all I have seen drop are gold coins, gemstones, potions, heal kits and of course the ever rare magical stone. Can we get a little more variety? Seeing more scrolls in drops would be an easy and reasonable start IMO. This way, wizards have a way to expand their library until Foxmore finally gets his blank scroll shipment. Alternatively the non-magic user can make a quick buck off of their sale.

Perhaps some of the enemies (the kind that uses weapons and armor) could once in a while drop weapons and armor made of cold iron, alchemical silver, mithril or adamantine. Nothing really game breaking. Just items of rare quality that can make it less likely that a single resurrection from Gleanna will destitute a player after hours of hunting.

[driller]

I will add scrolls to the drops. I am still debating on adding blank scrolls to stores. In BSK1 this led to wild abuses of spells.

-driller

At the moment the current array of possible treasure is a pale shadow of what it was in BSK 1. Not to say that a server needs Purple Drops to succeed but... all I have seen drop are gold coins, gemstones, potions, heal kits and of course the ever rare magical stone. Can we get a little more variety? Seeing more scrolls in drops would be an easy and reasonable start IMO. This way, wizards have a way to expand their library until Foxmore finally gets his blank scroll shipment. Alternatively the non-magic user can make a quick buck off of their sale.

Perhaps some of the enemies (the kind that uses weapons and armor) could once in a while drop weapons and armor made of cold iron, alchemical silver, mithril or adamantine. Nothing really game breaking. Just items of rare quality that can make it less likely that a single resurrection from Gleanna will destitute a player after hours of hunting.

[Roland Deschain]

I will add scrolls to the drops. I am still debating on adding blank scrolls to stores. In BSK1 this led to wild abuses of spells.

-driller

At the moment the current array of possible treasure is a pale shadow of what it was in BSK 1. Not to say that a server needs Purple Drops to succeed but... all I have seen drop are gold coins, gemstones, potions, heal kits and of course the ever rare magical stone. Can we get a little more variety? Seeing more scrolls in drops would be an easy and reasonable start IMO. This way, wizards have a way to expand their library until Foxmore finally gets his blank scroll shipment. Alternatively the non-magic user can make a quick buck off of their sale.

Perhaps some of the enemies (the kind that uses weapons and armor) could once in a while drop weapons and armor made of cold iron, alchemical silver, mithril or adamantine. Nothing really game breaking. Just items of rare quality that can make it less likely that a single resurrection from Gleanna will destitute a player after hours of hunting.

With the changes to spells in nwn2 I personally don't think it would be too much of a problem as long as you stopped a select few spells from being made into scrolls.(Living Undeath, Energy Immunity, Iron/Stone Body, Foundation of Stone and maybe a couple others.) One of the biggest scrolls in bsk1 was Mordenkainen's Disjunction and it was only Uber because of the way it was changed to completely dispel everything. Either way, thanks for adding the scrolls to drops.

[Caesius]

I will add scrolls to the drops. I am still debating on adding blank scrolls to stores. In BSK1 this led to wild abuses of spells.

-driller

At the moment the current array of possible treasure is a pale shadow of what it was in BSK 1. Not to say that a server needs Purple Drops to succeed but... all I have seen drop are gold coins, gemstones, potions, heal kits and of course the ever rare magical stone. Can we get a little more variety? Seeing more scrolls in drops would be an easy and reasonable start IMO. This way, wizards have a way to expand their library until Foxmore finally gets his blank scroll shipment. Alternatively the non-magic user can make a quick buck off of their sale.

Perhaps some of the enemies (the kind that uses weapons and armor) could once in a while drop weapons and armor made of cold iron, alchemical silver, mithril or adamantine. Nothing really game breaking. Just items of rare quality that can make it less likely that a single resurrection from Gleanna will destitute a player after hours of hunting.

Thanks driller. I have hope that a balance can be found with the Scribe Scroll feat so as to keep abuses to a minimum while still enriching the play experience and promoting trade between players.

[tlantl]

There shouldn't bee a lot of abuse with scribe scroll since the cost of creation is higher than shop prices for the more common ones, and the cost per level to create them will deter players from making a lot of them. Especially if the loot drops remain as low as they are.

it's kind of hard to create something if you can't afford to.

[twin_snakes]

I don't understand the need to nerf something the game had designed into it. If people want to stock up on scrolls they take the time to create then so be it. Money is already stingy in the world. Let them casters do what they want.

[Gibbo]

Technically speaking, NWN1 and NWN2 were designed primarily for the small adventuring party-- with the large-scale multiplayer PW setting a very different beast. Because the player-pool is larger, and the nature of the setting is more 'community' than 'adventure-story' based, stuff like game economics actually do matter.

I'm strongly pro Blank Scroll, since I believe it is necessary for the spell casters (especially the wizards and arcane casters) when they have a limited spells/day. I really like Roland's suggestion about making a 'blacklist' for spells that can't be scribed. Better yet, I feel like there could be a component used to control how much of certain spell scrolls are made (Like using Dragon's Blood for the Timestop scroll in BSK1-- I can rationalize how to avoid exploitation the DragonRod summon if need be).

If Blank Scrolls are going to be added, and there is a need for control on which spells can be scribed, then the next question is 'What is the complete list of spells to be blacklisted?' -- or perhaps using controlled physical spell components to only allow a limited number of those scrolls to be produced (ie, the components are quest rewards limited once or twice per character)?

I don't understand the need to nerf something the game had designed into it. If people want to stock up on scrolls they take the time to create then so be it. Money is already stingy in the world. Let them casters do what they want.

[Gibbo]

Over the next couple days, I'm going to be reviewing these spell lists for each of the spell casters:

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_spell_list

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer/wizard_spell_list

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Cleric_spell_list

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Druid_spell_list




I imagine the higher-level damage resist/immunity based spells will be the most troublesome spells... however 3.5 spells have a lot of interesting quirks to study closely..

[Veteran]

Dont see a need to blacklist spells , as nwn2 already worked out where scribed spells are weaker and less durable then the actual spell being put on it. But ok...I find it silly to try to balance something thats already been balanced. Only causes things to become more one sided. Make this server more rogue unfriendly? Not that I play one but I've looked around and any dex based character has quite a disadvantage as it is. And seeing as rogues/bards tend to fall back on their umd skill seems to be ridiculous to take away one of their few advantages in this game by limiting what they can use.

-Xillow

[Roland Deschain]

Dont see a need to blacklist spells , as nwn2 already worked out where scribed spells are weaker and less durable then the actual spell being put on it. But ok...I find it silly to try to balance something thats already been balanced. Only causes things to become more one sided. Make this server more rogue unfriendly? Not that I play one but I've looked around and any dex based character has quite a disadvantage as it is. And seeing as rogues/bards tend to fall back on their umd skill seems to be ridiculous to take away one of their few advantages in this game by limiting what they can use.

-Xillow

How is it ridiculous to take away a scroll such as http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Undeath ? or http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_immunity

Those two spells alone can nerf large parts of several classes.

Balancing what spells can be put onto scrolls is in no way ridiculous. As a matter of fact I will take your example and use it. A dex based Swashbuckler/weapon master goes up against a Bard/Rdd. Before the fight the bard uses a wand with living undeath on it. The bard is now immune to crits and sneaks. The Swashbuckler loses not only his damage potential, but his attractive class features weakening/wounding critical. All the bard loses is a POTENTIAL 4 charisma.

now then with that said I am all for Having Potions, wands, and scrolls, But I dont want to see several fun classes be ruined because everyone is immune to elemental damage and sneaks/criticals.

[StarChild]

Well said Roland. I have noticed scrolls in drops which means apparently our pleas are being heard by the almighty Driller.

[Caesius]

One important thing to consider is this: Scroll effects can be dispelled.This is not the same as having equipment which gives permanent undispellable immunities. Will some people spend amazing amounts of gold for lots of scrolls? Sure. But there is no time stop spell anymore. Harm and heal are nerfed. Energy Immunity and Living Undeath can be dispelled. Scrolls are already weaker this time around. Besides, why can't a wizard scribe scrolls to teach other wizards?

There are actually more dispel based magic spells in this game now.

Dispel Magic
Dispel Magic, Greater
Dispel Magic, Lesser
Spell Breach, Greater
Spell Breach, Lesser
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Wall of Dispel Magic
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic

Wouldn't the game developers want these spells to be used a bit more often anyways?

Like Gibbo says. If you really want to limit the amount of certain scrolls add a requirement for a rare ingredient but don't take away the ability for mages to use a feat they get for free(and practically defines the scholar's profession) just because some people with money to spend get creative.

Bottom line, scrolls are not all-powerful and do not make builds unbeatable. People would go bankrupt now if they tried what was done in BSK1.

[Veteran]

Dont see a need to blacklist spells , as nwn2 already worked out where scribed spells are weaker and less durable then the actual spell being put on it. But ok...I find it silly to try to balance something thats already been balanced. Only causes things to become more one sided. Make this server more rogue unfriendly? Not that I play one but I've looked around and any dex based character has quite a disadvantage as it is. And seeing as rogues/bards tend to fall back on their umd skill seems to be ridiculous to take away one of their few advantages in this game by limiting what they can use.

-Xillow

How is it ridiculous to take away a scroll such as http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Undeath ? or http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_immunity

Those two spells alone can nerf large parts of several classes.

Balancing what spells can be put onto scrolls is in no way ridiculous. As a matter of fact I will take your example and use it. A dex based Swashbuckler/weapon master goes up against a Bard/Rdd. Before the fight the bard uses a wand with living undeath on it. The bard is now immune to crits and sneaks. The Swashbuckler loses not only his damage potential, but his attractive class features weakening/wounding critical. All the bard loses is a POTENTIAL 4 charisma.

now then with that said I am all for Having Potions, wands, and scrolls, But I dont want to see several fun classes be ruined because everyone is immune to elemental damage and sneaks/criticals.

As a dex based char and no umd why? You could easily use any of the dispel and remove the scrolls used by the bard seeing as dispel scrolls vs buffs have a higher dc :/ like I said nwn2 already worked out all the abuses from nwn1 you can find rarely any exploits as of today. minus ofcouse stormlords a bit unbalanced >>

[Roland Deschain]

Dont see a need to blacklist spells , as nwn2 already worked out where scribed spells are weaker and less durable then the actual spell being put on it. But ok...I find it silly to try to balance something thats already been balanced. Only causes things to become more one sided. Make this server more rogue unfriendly? Not that I play one but I've looked around and any dex based character has quite a disadvantage as it is. And seeing as rogues/bards tend to fall back on their umd skill seems to be ridiculous to take away one of their few advantages in this game by limiting what they can use.

-Xillow

How is it ridiculous to take away a scroll such as http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Undeath ? or http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_immunity

Those two spells alone can nerf large parts of several classes.

Balancing what spells can be put onto scrolls is in no way ridiculous. As a matter of fact I will take your example and use it. A dex based Swashbuckler/weapon master goes up against a Bard/Rdd. Before the fight the bard uses a wand with living undeath on it. The bard is now immune to crits and sneaks. The Swashbuckler loses not only his damage potential, but his attractive class features weakening/wounding critical. All the bard loses is a POTENTIAL 4 charisma.

now then with that said I am all for Having Potions, wands, and scrolls, But I dont want to see several fun classes be ruined because everyone is immune to elemental damage and sneaks/criticals.

As a dex based char and no umd why? You could easily use any of the dispel and remove the scrolls used by the bard seeing as dispel scrolls vs buffs have a higher dc :/ like I said nwn2 already worked out all the abuses from nwn1 you can find rarely any exploits as of today. minus ofcouse stormlords a bit unbalanced >>

There are other things that I am accounting for with my example.I should have included them in my previous post and dont know why I didnt lol... My main beef is with the spell Living Undeath, now add in a race such as Drow and you had better have the Caster levels required to get your dispel to work. Then I am going to guess that this second level spell can be put onto a wand making its use even easier.

now as for energy immunity. Several warlock invocations are Elemental based. Warlocks will most likely have a very hard time with Spell resistance as I am pretty sure they lack the spell assay resistance ( or anything similar ). But what the warlock does have is an invocation that bypasses SR BUT it is acid damage.

nwn2 may have fixed some of the scroll balancing issues... but they opened several other issues with the addition of the Cheese that is Living undead and SR races. ( effectively making Pale Masters and Monks classes that have far less to offer )

Like Gibbo says. If you really want to limit the amount of certain scrolls add a requirement for a rare ingredient but don't take away the ability for mages to use a feat they get for free(and practically defines the scholar's profession) just because some people with money to spend get creative.

not sure if it was, but if that was directed at my opinion of needing to nerf a very few number of spells ( which is lower now that a few of the spells have been debugged in the beta ) let me state again that I am all for all 3 scribe feats, although I do not think that living undeath should be craftable, or in the game at all for that matter, and a restriction should at least be placed on energy immunity.

[Veteran]

PM was always quite useless , just abused for the immunities and as for monk it's supposed to shine through with its SR. Thats its only main offer besides the high atpr and Natural AC. As for the living undeath spell. Seeing as the server is already highly dominated by clerics what chance would any other class have when it comes to fighting one? specially seeing as we have alot of cl/sl crossbreeds. Where in which I still see sl as the most unbalanced prestige out there. If youre going to nerf the scroll you should take it away from the casters also being ALL casters even squishy wizards. and maybe nerf sl >> with a 10 ton weight.