Evil guilds

[Milk_Chocolate]

Evil guilds... is there such a thing in Blackstone Keep?

The Hunters, Starkson, SOM seem to be affiliated with "good", some more obviously than others...

The Shadowstalkers would seem to be an evil guild, but they supposedly don't exist...

Lich King and friends haven't been seen for some time, and even when they were here, they were just a bunch of lowbies who werent in any position to poke a stick at the Hunters or any other good guild.

The Resistance, which also seems to have been disbanded, wouldnt have even qualified as evil, more like chaotic neutral, since they were just Hamlet thugs looking for quick gold and a little raucous. (correct me if I'm wrong)

The Tribe Sa'bia (sorry if I misspelt it) are definitely chaotic good.

The upcoming Dwarven guild would be good or at the very least neutral without a doubt, if they uphold the dwarven ethics of honor and close brotherhood. Even if they were evil they would just invade Blackstone, conquer the tavern, and call it a day.

The newly formed Ironwood Alliance (4 members strong, yay!) is neutral.

So where in this server is there room for organized evil?

And I'm not just talking about theives. I'm talking about blackguards, evil sorcerors and clerics, etc., that would love for nothing more than death and destruction... the heads off all the Hunters on a pike in the Hamlet... the SOM razed and nothing more than a pile of ashes... ahem you get the point

I think for the sake of conflict, greater rp opportunity, and a cool little guild wars kinda thing, it would be cool if a few players got together and made a group of evil badasses. Because with a server full of goodie two shoes, where everyone holds hands under a rainbow, is unrealistic.

[Ferros Bernath]

I love this idea. We do need more evil in BSK. I think the reason most people are Neutral or good are because when you are walking down a road and you see someone. You can Buff them they say thanks and you keep walking. Now if you were evil and seen someone on the road.. First thing. Evil Jimbo Time stops newbie Steve, Then has all his rogue buddies Steal as much as they could while they are time stopped.. Then Kill him off. No res for you! ..... And then Banned.. for making Newbie Steve Crap himself and cry. I mean really the only thing you could do with a Evil guild is... RP until a good guild get enough people on to come and dispatch you. I have tried this before. With Not the best of results. If I really wanted to play a EVIL char, there wouldn’t be rules.. BUT this being BSK... There are a TON of rules to make newbie Steve stay on the server. And not a whole lot of rules to let Evil veteran char Jimbo want to stay on the server... But hey I think it’s a great idea. And I approve this message.

[Milk_Chocolate]

I love this idea. We do need more evil in BSK. I think the reason most people are Neutral or good are because when you are walking down a road and you see someone. You can Buff them they say thanks and you keep walking. Now if you were evil and seen someone on the road.. First thing. Evil Jimbo Time stops newbie Steve, Then has all his rogue buddies Steal as much as they could while they are time stopped.. Then Kill him off. No res for you! ..... And then Banned.. for making Newbie Steve Crap himself and cry. I mean really the only thing you could do with a Evil guild is... RP until a good guild get enough people on to come and dispatch you. I have tried this before. With Not the best of results. If I really wanted to play a EVIL char, there wouldn’t be rules.. BUT this being BSK... There are a TON of rules to make newbie Steve stay on the server. And not a whole lot of rules to let Evil veteran char Jimbo want to stay on the server... But hey I think it’s a great idea. And I approve this message.

Rofl time stop? Nah just use bigby's and by the time the spell is over the victim is butt naked and with a penny to his name... ahem but that kinda stuff will get you banned, yes.

An evil guy doesnt necessarily have to be chaotic evil (which is basically what you described above). Let me build off of something the Resistance used to do: a Hamlet road tax. Stop characters from entering the keep without paying you 200 gold (or whatever amount you want). The thing is, the character is getting robbed by your rogue buddy while he is standing there complaining about the tax lol. That's evil, and no one really has to die =D>

Or how about casting dispel magic on the guy that was just buffed by the Cleric of Vor just down the road? I've always wanted to do that to the buffed level 2's I see fighting ettins. They probably would die right after their stoneskin is gone, and I wouldnt be liable for it since dispel magic is not a hostile spell "What? I didn't kill you, pal. Those 5 ettins did."

The point is, theres lots of evil things to do, but no guild to back you up when a force of goodie two shoes blackstone defenders want to put you to justice. Someone make an evil guild asap!

[Axe Madness]

this sorta thing seems to happen alot, when a evil guild is actually active people cry and report you all day and cry some more and then when evil guildie goes bleh and quits you sit around the tree go wheres the action probably in jail where 1/4 (while X amount of server wants you banned) of server campaigns you to as a evil char to be.

but im always game for new evil guild

[Ferros Bernath]

Yeah those are great ideas. I am willing to join. Send Miloric Landsend a Pm ingame or Ferros Bernath. i will join ya or make a newbi to join. Leme know. i am more than happy to torment people. ... i have a list around here with names on it who need to be dealt with in a evil way. *searches around* AHHH yes here it is. #1 Hordack... Weird O well

[wdpepsiman]

an evil guild would be an excellent idea and it would give the good guilds something to do and make for great rp and pvp.

a word of advise: keep a low profile and do not start bragging about we are an evil guild and we are gonna do this and that because you will get squashed like a bug.

recruit your members and play it safe until you have reached maturity and then step forward.



an old saying: an empty barrel makes the loudest noise

[Milk_Chocolate]

an evil guild would be an excellent idea and it would give the good guilds something to do and make for great rp and pvp.

a word of advise: keep a low profile and do not start bragging about we are an evil guild and we are gonna do this and that because you will get squashed like a bug.

recruit your members and play it safe until you have reached maturity and then step forward.

I like your approach, I think that is where the Lich king posse went wrong... running around with flags and such and letting everyone know how evil they are. An evil guild should get some members, get to level 40, and make sure they are strong enough to take on people who would stand in their way...

[Milk_Chocolate]

I think now the question is: what actions can an evil guild do, that aren't bannable actions? Here's a list that I would like a dm to verify...

1) Attacking someone and killing them, but not bringing them to -11 hp (in other words they are holding on to life).
2) Casting Bigby's Forceful Hand on someone, robbing them 3 times per server rules, but leaving them under the effects of the spell (which can last up to 8 min if casted with extended metamagic)
3) Turning a player to stone and leaving them helpless
4) Casting contagion, poison, or bestow curse on a player and not healing them
5) Buffing/healing a boss monster that a player is trying to kill
6) Casting Harm on someone and walking away (hey, its not pk if the player isnt killed right?)
7) Dispelling a buffed player while he's fighting a bunch of monsters (thats what you get for powerleveling anyway )
8.) Hitting someone with an assasin death attack and leaving him paralyzed (death attack paralysis can last up to 30 minutes)
9) DIsarming someone, and demanding they pay 10,000 gold to get their weapon back

Other evil suggestions to come

[ST_DM_Myle]

The problem with evil in the past on BSK is that all too often they were 'stupid evil'.

We have had evil groups and guilds and even had some nice drawn out wars... but all too often... somebody from the 'stupid evil' crowd gets involved and suddenly nobody is having fun and complaints start rolling into the DM's.

If someone could organise a 'smart evil' or a 'social evil'... then they could parade around and the best the Hunters could do was stand around waiting for an excuse.... because if they acted without an excuse - then the 'evil' people would have the upper hand with the law and public opinion.

No sure how many of you were around for Alolia or the Pale Sisters or the Kazra Wars.... While each was instigated by a DM, the fact is that 90% of the interactions between players on each side was without DM oversight. The great thing about it was that most of the time, players went out of their way to make sure that everything was kosher OOC-wise and if there was an OOC issue with the IC actions - they either discussed it and came to an agreement or they seperated and had a DM deal with the matter.

Things were not all peaches and cream... there were several flare ups, but all in all.... each player involved made a effort OOC to make the scenerios fun all the way around.... and let me tell you... there were LOTS of defeats and victories on both sides.


The point of this is.... 'Stupid Evil' is a pointless waste of time. It is obvious, it is targeted and it is smashed by the combined forces of champions.... then they respawn and place no RP value in the defeat... returning quickly to their role as stupid, useless and annoying.


'Smart Evil' is a thinking evil. They slowly build their support and allies. They target their key enemies and subvert them... maybe even turn them. By the time the 'goodguys' know that they are under attack the good guys have to play catchup. "Smart evil" or 'Social evil' often take the time to turn public opinion their way or otherwise 'champion' causes that the 'heros' would usually own. 'Smart evil' conspires to out think their enemy and to force their enemy to make mistakes.

'Social evil' often plans out ways to make the society they seek to rule accept things that will ease the change of power and undermine the friendships of their likely foes.

Those who play evil are often heard to complain that they have no chance... that if the Hunters can stop someone alone, they have SOM and Starkson who will historically back them up.... but what if the bad guys were sneaky enough to break up those alliances? ... What if the Badguys were about to become friendly enough with one of those groups that they would not support the conflict on either side?







Yeah... I can hear it....

" But I want to FIGHT and KICK BUTT and be EVVVIIILLLLLL! "
Sorry buddy.. that is the perfect example of 'stupid evil' ... You might as well go rob a bank while wearing your baseball jersy from the local highschool you attended. It will have the same effect.


On the other hand... the evil character(s) could intigrate themselves into the society and corrupt it from the inside out, weakening their opponents and undermining their values until your able to cast the 'goodguys' in a bad light and leave them with no morale authority to call on as they resist you...


There is no reason why evil can not take over the server... except that those who plan evil have not ever really tried. They have fought battles, wars and campiagns... but they have never really laid a solid foundation for final supreme control.

The question is.... is that a goal for your brand of evil?.... or are you happy to wave a flag around and make sure your considered a non-issue to be summarily squashed and thought pitiful?


Myle

[Thanatos]

I was always a fan of tactics involving hanging out in lowbie areas and when someone kills some low lvl monster, you put on a big show about how you'd been stalking him for days on end and that the kill was yours...ultimately leading to slaughter.

Disclaimer: I, under no circumstance, would engage in such activities. I've just heard of them.

[Milk_Chocolate]

'Smart Evil' is a thinking evil. They slowly build their support and allies. They target their key enemies and subvert them... maybe even turn them. By the time the 'goodguys' know that they are under attack the good guys have to play catchup. "Smart evil" or 'Social evil' often take the time to turn public opinion their way or otherwise 'champion' causes that the 'heros' would usually own. 'Smart evil' conspires to out think their enemy and to force their enemy to make mistakes.

'Social evil' often plans out ways to make the society they seek to rule accept things that will ease the change of power and undermine the friendships of their likely foes.

Those who play evil are often heard to complain that they have no chance... that if the Hunters can stop someone alone, they have SOM and Starkson who will historically back them up.... but what if the bad guys were sneaky enough to break up those alliances? ... What if the Badguys were about to become friendly enough with one of those groups that they would not support the conflict on either side?

[...]

On the other hand... the evil character(s) could intigrate themselves into the society and corrupt it from the inside out, weakening their opponents and undermining their values until your able to cast the 'goodguys' in a bad light and leave them with no morale authority to call on as they resist you...


There is no reason why evil can not take over the server... except that those who plan evil have not ever really tried. They have fought battles, wars and campiagns... but they have never really laid a solid foundation for final supreme control.

The question is.... is that a goal for your brand of evil?.... or are you happy to wave a flag around and make sure your considered a non-issue to be summarily squashed and thought pitiful?
Myle

The SOM and Hunters know how to come together, thats for sure lol. But Myle has a good point, and I guess that labels the list I posted earlier as basically "a list of stupid evil things to do"

I never knew being evil would be so freaking hard and take so much effort lol but I guess having being evil and having a goal is what separates the petty theives and thugs from the real villains.

[ST_DM_Myle]

I think now the question is: what actions can an evil guild do, that aren't bannable actions? Here's a list that I would like a dm to verify...

1) Attacking someone and killing them, but not bringing them to -11 hp (in other words they are holding on to life).
2) Casting Bigby's Forceful Hand on someone, robbing them 3 times per server rules, but leaving them under the effects of the spell (which can last up to 8 min if casted with extended metamagic)
3) Turning a player to stone and leaving them helpless
4) Casting contagion, poison, or bestow curse on a player and not healing them
5) Buffing/healing a boss monster that a player is trying to kill
6) Casting Harm on someone and walking away (hey, its not pk if the player isnt killed right?)
7) Dispelling a buffed player while he's fighting a bunch of monsters (thats what you get for powerleveling anyway )
8.) Hitting someone with an assasin death attack and leaving him paralyzed (death attack paralysis can last up to 30 minutes)
9) DIsarming someone, and demanding they pay 10,000 gold to get their weapon back

Other evil suggestions to come

Each of these is absolutely fine and acceptable within the framework of RP as long as those involved are having fun.
Each of these is absolutely wrong and unacceptable within the framework that the victim is being greifed and not having fun.


This is were 'smart' and 'stupid' applications come into play.


This is also were you have to realise that NOBODY is required to participate in YOUR personal RP. Unless the DM's sanction you as the 'Offical Burglar of the Hamlet', then anyone can refuse to pay those who try to play 'highwaymen' there. This is where YOU need to decide what kind of people you want to RP with.

BSK is an RP-Lite server... You may find that your brand of RP does not mix well with another group... At this point you either have to decide to OOC chat and find some common ground or you need to decide that your better off avoiding those players/characters.

Of course, the more you decide to exclude from your RP, the more effected your RP will be.. For example: If you decide to 'not rp' with the Hunters = then your going to have to 'not rp' with those that they are closely involved with. Selective RP'ing can become complicated and contrived... but sometimes it is necessary if IC/OOC compromises are impossible.



I guess it all boils down to how mature and respectful players are willing to be OOC regarding things that will happen IC.

Myle

[Thanatos]

I guess it all boils down to how mature and respectful players are willing to be OOC regarding things that will happen IC.

Myle

That's the core of it all. Some of the best IC times I ever had on the server, I died in the process. But everyone was respectful and mature about it. That's about as spot-on as it gets.

I never knew being evil would be so freaking hard and take so much effort lol but I guess having being evil and having a goal is what separates the petty theives and thugs from the real villains.

Few people even play "evil" properly, or with any amount of sensibility. I know I can't, so I don't bother. I've been known to engage in some pretty evil stuff from time to time, but fully RP'ing a character as evil the entire time is outside of my ability.

"Hell I know I can't swim honey, so you know what I do? I stay my black @$$ out the pool!!!"

[Milk_Chocolate]

"Hell I know I can't swim honey, so you know what I do? I stay my black @$$ out the pool!!!"

roflmfao

[Wing--Zero]

Ok guys give me a week and i'll work on something. who knows maybe can exclude the village idiot from the guild.