Stacking soak and reduction

[Thanatos]

Chocolatey_Milk:

It's not just the fun of the others, but fun for ourselves too. Sometimes it's good to shake things up just to keep ourselves entertained.

As for innovative builds...
*looks at Duo and Roland* Aren't we about out of those?
*sees both of them nodding and looks back to Chocolatey_Milk* Yeah, we're about out of them bud. It doesn't take much to run through the list of good builds when you can crank out a lvl 40 in under 24 hours.

Honestly, we could probably drop the cap to 30% and not see too many people effected by it. My soaker only runs with 25% immunity to piercing and bludgeoning and does just fine. That's right people, I've only been running him with 25% MWAHAHAHAHA

Ahem...anyways...as I was saying...this really doesn't affect that many people. Really, it only affects the vets who've been around long enough to amass the forgies required to craft such suits of armor.

[Alamore-Threepwood]

Rakshasa form > Don

Yea, true, you did beat me, thought I took out a bit of yer hit points, and Veno>Rakshasa form / any other shifter form. And once more, like everyone else has said, it aint bickering, we just like to see some good balanced PvP because thats what we enjoy, I rarely fight melees with Don (unless they where asking for it) because it's just not fair, and I love fighting mage fights without time stop, because it's fun, and not so cheap, a well balanced server = a fun server, and I think it is agreed upon by most of us, we want to play a fun server =D.

[Luceran]

I'm with chocolate on this one. I don't like the constant averaging of anything. If you're smart enough or industrious enough to figure out an angle, kudos. In my humble opinion, catering to the average breeds the average.

With that being said, the environment on BSK is dynamic. The creatures, NPC's and gods should be able to react to an obvious weaknesses. If the tyranoid clans are constantly getting their ass handed to them they should react to that threat accordingly and change their tactics. This is the challenge of the DM staff. To react to the nature of the world within the context of the world. External rule changes to correct PVP imbalances miss the point almost entirely.

Can anyone explain this change to me in the context of the storyline of the server?

Luceran

[Alamore-Threepwood]

I dunno know about you, but 50% (unless it's slashing) is pretty hard even for me, or say trying to get 25% on everything is still even hard, so cappen it off doesn't leave "normal" and it is easy to fit it in RP wise, the magical properties just don't seem to allow it to go beyond a certain point (much ab cap that we see in NWN wonderful system)

[Axe Madness]

well got nothin for ya story line this more or less a way to give people more of a challenge but! im all good with keeping the door open for max immunities i don't have 100 anyway... so doesn't affect me if i can't dmg you i'll go then shoot with rod of frost couple times and if that fails duck n roll! =D> should give pallys a divine rod does say 5dmg just to zap people and black gaurds and palemasters a negative rod does like 5 dmg. .that would be really cool [-o< [-o<

ok im done now

[Pharo_IK]

I'm with chocolate on this one. I don't like the constant averaging of anything. If you're smart enough or industrious enough to figure out an angle, kudos. In my humble opinion, catering to the average breeds the average.

With that being said, the environment on BSK is dynamic. The creatures, NPC's and gods should be able to react to an obvious weaknesses. If the tyranoid clans are constantly getting their ass handed to them they should react to that threat accordingly and change their tactics. This is the challenge of the DM staff. To react to the nature of the world within the context of the world. External rule changes to correct PVP imbalances miss the point almost entirely.

Can anyone explain this change to me in the context of the storyline of the server?

Luceran

i think this is less about lowering everyone to a common denominator and more about keeping within the intent and capability of the server.

having PC's that are so powerful that the only way for the server to challenge them is to have monsters that whole parties of non-uber characters could not beat on their best day is a bit much. i fully understand that the average player should not be suprised if they go against a skilled player with an elite build and get trashed, but do we really want a bell curve like we have now? do we really want player character who are effectivly god-like?

personally, i do not support the nerfing of immunities, but i do think that this thread brings up a very good point. at what point does power in the hands of a PC begin to be so great that the server is no longer designed to handle it?

and why should it be a DM's job to handle a situation that involves a player accomplishing what the server allows?
sure, DM's could alter monsters gear, but that only lasts until 'splat'. the problem of player characters exceeding the servers standard expectations is something administration has to address at the source.


case in point: we have the blood cultists. there are a few characters who can solo that place. yet... if we take a step backwards on the uber-meter by more than a single factor and we find entire parties of semi-uber are going to die before they even get inside the fort. i would wager that less than 1% of the playerbase even has a character that could make a serious run at even getting in the front door.

do not get me wrong. i like the idea of having areas that require sound builds/teamwork/planning to be able to survive. what gets me is how stark the difference is between solo'ing the entire area and getting turned into goo by the first hostile spawn in the zone.

as i said, i'm not completely on board the immunity nerf, though it could work as a band-aid.

so, how else to fix things? well, that would take looking over what it is about the god-like characters that makes them god-like. then determine if what they achieved is due to being clever or due to some overlooked possibilities that the admin needs to address.


if the results reveals that the builds are simply clever - leave thing alone.

if the results reveals that there are possible combinations of server features that were not considered or should not be combined - then the problem features should be modified.

Pharo

[wdpepsiman]

i have followed this thread on a daily basis and there are a lot of valid points pro and con about this issue.

as i play one of the few char who use a slashing weapon i have several observations on this subject.

1. to be able to get 70 to 80% or greater slashing immunity gear is relatively easy

2. to craft the set of perfect gear for all types of immunity is possible but very costly and time consuming. as slashing usually is the type immunity that is given

2. there is in game a great equalizer called an amber forge stone, apply said item (if you can ever find one) to your weapon via a master crafter
note: once applied item does not always work

3.you have to ask yourself who wears slashing immunity gear anymore, except for the blackstone hood, low level char because that is the most common type of immunity available to them and a few vets who made three types of armor for any situation. answer: very few most wear bludgeoning immunity and add some piercing immunity if lucky enough to get on rings and other items.

4. should the hood be nerfed?.........maybe.......or should we add a couple more helmets?........with bludgeoning or piercing immunity like the hood.......that is for the admin to decide but as i understand it with 1.69 coming soon weapons that deal two types of damage are going to be a bit more powerful than they are now, so perhaps we need to nerf them as well.

all i am saying is instead of nerfing things everytime somebody complains or whines about a certain thing should we over react and make changes.

sure i would love to do more damage to some people with my char but the weapon i choose was my choice at the begining of char creation (i am not saying anyone is whining on this subject...just based on past occurences)

i have to agree with Luceran if you are smart or clever enough to figure out how to get around certain monsters or people then why should you everyone be penalized for figuring it out and passing it along to other players.

suggestion: change the type of damage the creatures do on a random basis if possible....talk about a surprise lol that would be fun to watch.

[Morgan]

suggestion: change the type of damage the creatures do on a random basis if possible....talk about a surprise lol that would be fun to watch.

Ouch!

[Milk_Chocolate]

i think this is less about lowering everyone to a common denominator and more about keeping within the intent and capability of the server.

having PC's that are so powerful that the only way for the server to challenge them is to have monsters that whole parties of non-uber characters could not beat on their best day is a bit much. i fully understand that the average player should not be suprised if they go against a skilled player with an elite build and get trashed, but do we really want a bell curve like we have now? do we really want player character who are effectivly god-like?

personally, i do not support the nerfing of immunities, but i do think that this thread brings up a very good point. at what point does power in the hands of a PC begin to be so great that the server is no longer designed to handle it?

and why should it be a DM's job to handle a situation that involves a player accomplishing what the server allows?
sure, DM's could alter monsters gear, but that only lasts until 'splat'. the problem of player characters exceeding the servers standard expectations is something administration has to address at the source.


case in point: we have the blood cultists. there are a few characters who can solo that place. yet... if we take a step backwards on the uber-meter by more than a single factor and we find entire parties of semi-uber are going to die before they even get inside the fort. i would wager that less than 1% of the playerbase even has a character that could make a serious run at even getting in the front door.

do not get me wrong. i like the idea of having areas that require sound builds/teamwork/planning to be able to survive. what gets me is how stark the difference is between solo'ing the entire area and getting turned into goo by the first hostile spawn in the zone.

as i said, i'm not completely on board the immunity nerf, though it could work as a band-aid.

so, how else to fix things? well, that would take looking over what it is about the god-like characters that makes them god-like. then determine if what they achieved is due to being clever or due to some overlooked possibilities that the admin needs to address.


if the results reveals that the builds are simply clever - leave thing alone.

if the results reveals that there are possible combinations of server features that were not considered or should not be combined - then the problem features should be modified.

Pharo

I agree. Do not punish someone for a clever or innovative build, or for having the resources to get decent gear. Havent they earned what they have? On the other hand, if they are exploiting a bug or glitch, that obviously isnt fair (key word: exploit) and that is up to the admins to be taken care of.

Is Blackstone hood an exploit? Nope.

Green Forgies? Nope. By the way, getting slashing immunity is not always guaranteed. The other day I used 3 greens and got 5% immunity to slashing, acid, and fire.

By the way I would like to point out that there are ways around slashing immunity (or any other immunity to physical dmg). There is an item property called Extra Melee (or ranged) Damage: Bludgeoning (or slashing or piercing). Some people think this means the weapon does bonus damage, but this is in fact a property to override damage immunity.

Example:

A longsword WM has a longsword with Extra Melee Damage: Piercing. He attacks a character with 50% slashing immunity and 20/- slashing resistance.
20 points of slashing damage are reduced thanks to the slashing resistance. HOWEVER the damage immunity reduces nothing because the longsword is considered a piercing weapon, only when faced against damage immunity (not dmg resistance/reduction), thanks to the Extra Melee Damage property.

Wait, theres more!

There are a few items that have faced neglect but in fact could become more popular if there is no immunity nerf. Look at the following:

Halberd
Morningstar
Scythe

What do they all have in common? They all have more than 1 DAMAGE TYPE. Halberd and Scythe are slashing AND piercing. Morningstar is bludgeoning AND piercing. So before you scream "NERF!!" Why dont you try dusting off one of these weapons, and surpirse your opponents with these versatile weapons?

[Roland Deschain]

I basically only use morningstars for the majority of my characters. SO many of us who support the nerf are already using 2 type weapons.

[Milk_Chocolate]

I love the nwn wiki. I just did some research and thought it would help if I posted this so people can see what im talking about... and how the 3 weapons i mentioned earlier will become even STRONGER in the 1.69 patch (when its released 10 years from now lol).

Piercing-slashing damage
From NWNWiki

Piercing/slashing damage is a physical damage type caused by weapons that can be used either to impale or to slice an opponent, depending on how the weapon is wielded. This is a dual-damage type, which is affected by the lower of piercing immunity and slashing immunity, and by the higher of piercing resistance and slashing resistance.


Examples of weapons that cause this type of damage include:

Halberd
Scythe

Notes
With the upcoming patch 1.69, the lower of piercing resistance and slashing resistance will affect the damage, not the higher one.

Now please excuse me while I make a morningstar weapon master.

[Hordack]

I say this ... Let's leave it alone ... only ones making the suggestions are in fact the power builder's on the server ... My build has addapted to almost every build here ... my weapon of choice is the Longbow or Shortbow with extra damage slashing/priecing/blunt and +20. Yeah I use good amount of scrolls wands and potions, but over 4+ years I have leanred what has worked and what hasn't worked and in fact I have returned to an older build to overcome newer builds.

But yeah right Pharo ... I would never go alone into the blood culist area ... I am to damn chicken and I learned my lesson the first time.

Scary but I agree with Pharo I say leave it alone.

Agreeing with a Starkson! God somebody slap me now!

[wdpepsiman]

Raven gleefully slaps Hordy into the middle of next week

[ST_DM_Myle]

He walked into that one.

Myle

[Andrun]

Agreeing with a Starkson! God somebody slap me now!

Raven gleefully slaps Hordy into the middle of next week

He walked into that one.

Ahem...

So instead of a man walks into a bar, a Hordack walks into a Raven's Pimpin' Hand...