Stacking soak and reduction

[Douglas Thurman]

50% sounds fair. I vote with DM Myle.

[Morgan]

50% sounds fair enough to start with

[Hordack]

50% sounds good to me ... what I really care I use a Longbow *evil grin*

[Alamore-Threepwood]

I'm all good for the 50% cap, but think 30% would serve the best and like Tropic stated, mages always pretty much win, I have yet to see a melee give Don a good fight (90 ac mage 4 teh win) and yes they do sell divine resist, but only 10, so if you crit, you still get 20 damage through... wooo.

Wonder if Al would think having ~1000hp and casting Heals, Greater Restorations and Mass Heals be 'underhanded'?

Well, I remember that fight well enough with Don... time stop and counter spelling did just fine for meh

[Axe Madness]

cap all good for me to, also for heal fight can set him to unhostile temperaly timestop him couple times till your no longer unable to rest hit rest timestop again got spells back re hostile him and wala dead cleric lol =D>

[Doofy Britches]

Hmm.

I'm what you'd call "one of those average" player/builders. None of my 3 lvl 40's are built for PvP.. and have a very difficult time in the Underdark. Not because their built for RP necessarily.. just because I'm an old dog.. still learning the server- and how to build in NWN. That being said... there's a comment earlier on about building for MoBs, for PvP for to split both.

I absolutely LOVED and ABHORRED Myles comment about BSK turning into Arelith. Horrible experience there- and that server caused me to go looking for a better one and that's how I found BSK. That server became THE poster child for nerfing, in the name of "game balance".

I don't think D&D, nor NwN ever set out to have a "perfectly balanced" character pantheon- where every class has its opposite and equaly strong counter-part. The general focus however is that overall- the rock-paper-scissors theory should apply- and a "general equalibrium" among character class comparisons be established- Even character classes with devestrating strenghts should have an equal weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

That being said- I don't care if immunities are high - but I do think they should be equal. If the server offers an item with 25% slash immunity- then it would be logical to have other items with iummunties in the other areas. I LIKE high magic servers. What's the point of all the spells and equipment built into the game if you don't EVER get to use them? Might as well have a character class named "Commoner" and no magic, all spells nerfed, and doggone near everything else nerfed into oblivion.. and pretty soon- you ain't playing NwN- your playing the SIMS.

I do think that having a max across the board (and 50% sounds fair) and should not upset game play- however- I don't PvP.. and this probably affects that aspect on the server the most. I don't know how the MoBs feel about this- (has anyone asked them how THEY feel- har har har?) placing a cap just might make some of the areas on the server- just that much harder to survive in.

[ST_DM_Myle]

The idea is to effect a change on the PC's and not involve any significant retooling of the server.


So... I have no idea where it will be on Drillers 'to do list'.... but I will put in a request to place a 50% cap on effective immunties. Meaning, your immunities can add up to over 50%, but only the first 50% will actually apply to your characters advantage.

As for having 25% immunity items for piercing and bludgeoning..... Lets get this project taken care of first.

Myle

[Milk_Chocolate]

I just read this post for the first time since its creation whatever many weeks ago.

Let me start with "Wow". Is everyone really bickering because a few 1337 people have uber damage immunity (using a common helm and semi-common forgies)?

Ok I see that you folks have come to the conclusion that there should be a 50% immunity cap. To be honest I am APPAULED. Since when is NWN, or PvP for that matter, about meeting the lowest denominator? This is almost as whack as that server wipe idea, "to give new people a chance".

Plain and simple: You have players who know the game (and the server) very well and know how to make characters that have jaw dropping stats. Then you have players who think clicking "recommended" on the level up screen is going to make them an awesome character. Don't punish those who use their knowledge to get their character power.

So heres my final thought: I dont care what you set the cap at. Lets just please not start a trend of capping everything just because the a small percentile of players above the norm find ways to make characters with stats above the norm. Example: AC over 90 (some even over 100), with AB in the 80's, with immunities in the 60 (percent), stunning fist DC's in the 50's (ya I'm talking about you Master Li ), hide skill at 127 and the list goes on and on.

Edit: changed color cuz red isnt very easy on the eyes.

[Milk_Chocolate]

I'm all good for the 50% cap, but think 30% would serve the best and like Tropic stated, mages always pretty much win, I have yet to see a melee give Don a good fight (90 ac mage 4 teh win) and yes they do sell divine resist, but only 10, so if you crit, you still get 20 damage through... wooo.

Wonder if Al would think having ~1000hp and casting Heals, Greater Restorations and Mass Heals be 'underhanded'?

Well, I remember that fight well enough with Don... time stop and counter spelling did just fine for meh

Rakshasa form > Don

[Andrun]

Let me start with "Wow". Is everyone really bickering because a few 1337 people have uber damage immunity (using a common helm and semi-common forgies)?

I don't think we're bickering at all. It's turned into a rather good discussion regarding the physical damage immunity cap.

Ok I see that you folks have come to the conclusion that there should be a 50% immunity cap. To be honest I am APPAULED. Since when is NWN, or PvP for that matter, about meeting the lowest denominator? This is almost as whack as that server wipe idea, "to give new people a chance".

It's not about that. What this is about is balancing PvP a bit more to remove some of the imbalance.

Plain and simple: You have players who know the game (and the server) very well and know how to make characters that have jaw dropping stats. Then you have players who think clicking "recommended" on the level up screen is going to make them an awesome character. Don't punish those who use their knowledge to get their character power.

Many of us do not build our characters up from scatch from levels 1 to 40. Use a play-test mod like the Pretty Good Character Creator and a NWN build search engine to look up a decent build, modify it for the server's rules, then play test it. If it works, use it. If not, scrap it and start over. My latest incarnation of Andrun has gone through probably 20 rebuilds, three of which are on the BSK itself, before I decided on how I wanted to build him.

And your part about using their knowledge to get their character powered, this can be easily summed up by a quote by Bruce Lee.

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

Be adaptable is all he is trying to say. Since your adaptability is your strength, you can use all at your disposal to defeat your opponent.

So heres my final thought: I dont care what you set the cap at. Lets just please not start a trend of capping everything just because the a small percentile of players above the norm find ways to make characters with stats above the norm. Example: AC over 90 (some even over 100), with AB in the 80's, with immunities in the 60 (percent), stunning fist DC's in the 50's (ya I'm talking about you Master Li ), hide skill at 127 and the list goes on and on.

That's actually the point of many of us already discussing this. As Myle has already pointed out (a quote is imminent), we do not wish to become the next Arelith. A small tweak here and there is better than a list full of errata and changes to the standard rules; and after reading it you're not sure if you're playing D&D or not.

The idea is to effect a change on the PC's and not involve any significant retooling of the server.

Rakshasa form > Don

A preconcieved notion is not the best way to go on either the forums or the server. It all goes back to my comment about adaptability and Donalian can adapt to a situation when he cannot cast spells.

Well, I remember that fight well enough with Don... time stop and counter spelling did just fine for meh

Never countered me. The Time Stops kept interrupting my Heal spells (you were just a bit faster than Eldrun).

[Morgan]

One way or another it's all about having some fun. Don't think an immunity cap is gonna wreck anyones day like a server wipe might

[Thanatos]

I'll throw down for the 50%.

Let me start with "Wow". Is everyone really bickering because a few 1337 people have uber damage immunity (using a common helm and semi-common forgies)?

Chocolatey_Milk: The people involved in the "everyone" group, pretty much ARE the 1337 people with the uber damage immunity. People with more lvl 40 chars than you can shake a stick at. People with enough forgies to fill a dump truck. Not people who have troubles walking across Blackstone Road.

This group of people is comprised mainly of people who DO have the immunities. But sometimes we have to take a look at things and re-evaluate the situation, even if it means our gear that cost us 40-some odd hours of forgie grinding gets nerfed. We like to keep things fun for not just ourselves, but for others as well.

[Milk_Chocolate]

Chocolatey_Milk: The people involved in the "everyone" group, pretty much ARE the 1337 people with the uber damage immunity. People with more lvl 40 chars than you can shake a stick at. People with enough forgies to fill a dump truck. Not people who have troubles walking across Blackstone Road.

True true, in fact I think gabe is the one that brought up the whole question of dmg immunities.

This group of people is comprised mainly of people who DO have the immunities. But sometimes we have to take a look at things and re-evaluate the situation, even if it means our gear that cost us 40-some odd hours of forgie grinding gets nerfed.

Very noble. But I dont understand why this calls for *shudders* a nerf. You worked hard for your gear, you should reap the rewards and enjoy it. Leave it to newer players to be creative or to come up with an innovative build to make up for what they lack in gear, just like you and all the other vets had to do when you started playing here.

We like to keep things fun for not just ourselves, but for others as well.

In addition I dont see how a few people who have extraordinary slashing immunity are ruining anyone else's fun. Slashing immunity is not anyone's saving grace but just a small piece of what makes up a strong, well rounded character. IMO.

[Caesius]

I believe that the mechanics for the Damage Immunity property are hard coded to only allow values of 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 90% and 100%. If anyone has a scripted workaround to prevent the hardcoded property from stacking beyond 50% I would be interested in seeing how it can be done.

[driller]

You just have to add up what immunities on the items they have equipped and apply ItemPropertyDamageVulnerability(int, int) to their skins. Will it be perfect? No, but it can come close.

-driller

I believe that the mechanics for the Damage Immunity property are hard coded to only allow values of 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 90% and 100%. If anyone has a scripted workaround to prevent the hardcoded property from stacking beyond 50% I would be interested in seeing how it can be done.