Ok boys and girls, the following is a case that really happened recently, with minor embellishments here and there for the purpose of clarifying the case. The names have been changed to protect the innocent (and the guilty). Read the following excerpt, point out what (if anything) was done wrong, who is at fault, when and why. There might be a prize for the best, most complete answer. Other DM's: Please refrain from posting until we've had a reasonable number of player responses.
1. A bandit type p/c who we'll call Butthead takes up a position on Blackstone Road and decides to extort payment to pass. His level is unkown
2. A lower level adventurer called Beavis encounters Butthead on the road.
3. Butthead accosts Beavis and announces "1000 gold or your life!"
4. Beavis replies "Never, now let me pass"
5. Beavis announces in Party Chat that somone is on blackstone road doing this
6. Bozo, a member of this party says that he'll be right there
7. Butthead asks "You mean you life isn't worth 1000 gold?" Then proceeds to go hostile on Beavis, and attacks.
8. At about this time, Bozo shows up. Butthead asks the same question with the same results. Since Bozo is an epic character, he smites Butthead with little effort.
9. Bozo offers Butthead a rez, but Butthead chooses to respawn instead.
10. Butthead returns to the scene and resumes attacking Bozo, and finds himself eating daisies. Bozo again offers a rez, but Butthead logs out.
Have fun with this one, and try to keep your essays under 500 words. I know for some of you that will be quite difficult.
Essay Contest
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Capt Cliff
- Duke
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:22 pm
First ... I do like the names!! Oh and didn't I see this exact episode on I Love Lucy?
Seems to me Beavis should have role played it better and not called Bozo on party chat. He should have sent a tell to utthead asking for level info to besure the level diferential was not excessive. Then he should have fought Butthead and if he lost waited for a rez from Butthead or if no rez came from Butthead then called Bozo for a rez, but don't tell him anything. Then Bozo would not be pc killing with fore knowledge of the events, he would be just defending himself from a butthead. If Beavis won I guess game over but Beavis should go to the tree and rp the banditry along the road to someone, like a Hunter, and have Butthead driven from the road. That's an ideal situation but when confronted with a deliberate hostile PC, not known their level, one tends to just call for help. I got braced by two epic PC's in the Playful Maiden Portal room once, I was 8th or 9th level. They stunned me and then asked for all my money. Dah! How's a stunned PC to answer a question about money ... so I logged! I considered it a OOC violation and not in rp format. They should have used a bigbey's hand.
Seems to me Beavis should have role played it better and not called Bozo on party chat. He should have sent a tell to utthead asking for level info to besure the level diferential was not excessive. Then he should have fought Butthead and if he lost waited for a rez from Butthead or if no rez came from Butthead then called Bozo for a rez, but don't tell him anything. Then Bozo would not be pc killing with fore knowledge of the events, he would be just defending himself from a butthead. If Beavis won I guess game over but Beavis should go to the tree and rp the banditry along the road to someone, like a Hunter, and have Butthead driven from the road. That's an ideal situation but when confronted with a deliberate hostile PC, not known their level, one tends to just call for help. I got braced by two epic PC's in the Playful Maiden Portal room once, I was 8th or 9th level. They stunned me and then asked for all my money. Dah! How's a stunned PC to answer a question about money ... so I logged! I considered it a OOC violation and not in rp format. They should have used a bigbey's hand.
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Elf of Silver
- Knight
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:13 pm
- Location: Ohio
They were all in the wrong.
First off Beavis never should have said what he did in party chat because your just inviting meta. Bozo was wrong for responding to the cry for help. He could not have IC known a party member was being molested. Butthead should have given Beavis the opportunity to respond to his post of "You mean your life isnt worth 1000 gold?" before attacking. This would have given him a chance to change his mind. Butthead should not have returned to the scene simply because its bad form, but also, its extremely stupid to engage an epic PC who can clearly beat the crap out of you.
First off Beavis never should have said what he did in party chat because your just inviting meta. Bozo was wrong for responding to the cry for help. He could not have IC known a party member was being molested. Butthead should have given Beavis the opportunity to respond to his post of "You mean your life isnt worth 1000 gold?" before attacking. This would have given him a chance to change his mind. Butthead should not have returned to the scene simply because its bad form, but also, its extremely stupid to engage an epic PC who can clearly beat the crap out of you.
There are many angles with which to view the situation. But due to time constraints, I’ll jump straight to the heart of the matter. With that being said, the blame falls neither onto Beavis or Bozo, but to Butthead. And with that, let’s take a look at the facts.
The initial confrontation originated when Butthead offered the ultimatum to Beavis. Now, even though they weren’t necessarily good options, they were options, none the less. I, myself, always make them kill me, but that’s besides the point. Beavis was offered 2 choices, he chose one leading to his death.
Now, moving along in the scenario, we come to the point where Beavis sends the party chat distress signal. In looking at this, he didn’t force anyone to come to his aid. He simply mentioned that there was someone on the road that killed him. However, Bozo responded and headed down to the road. It doesn’t matter why he went down there, as we all know how most events get started anyway (DM shout).
According to the scenario described, Butthead offered the same ultimatum to Bozo. However, given that Bozo was threatened, he has every right to retaliate with force.
Next, we see Butthead respawning despite the raise offer. Now, whether a raise was offered or not is irrelevant. It has no bearing on why someone was killed. Butthead then goes out to attack Bozo. Herein lies the clinching evidence. According to the facts supplied, there was no more RP, but rather a simple attack. Even if he had RP’ed attacking, it would be a bit ridiculous since he respawned. Thus, our culprit is Butthead.
On a side note…for all Buttheads out there…be careful who you threaten with death, as you give them immediate cause for killing you.
The initial confrontation originated when Butthead offered the ultimatum to Beavis. Now, even though they weren’t necessarily good options, they were options, none the less. I, myself, always make them kill me, but that’s besides the point. Beavis was offered 2 choices, he chose one leading to his death.
Now, moving along in the scenario, we come to the point where Beavis sends the party chat distress signal. In looking at this, he didn’t force anyone to come to his aid. He simply mentioned that there was someone on the road that killed him. However, Bozo responded and headed down to the road. It doesn’t matter why he went down there, as we all know how most events get started anyway (DM shout).
According to the scenario described, Butthead offered the same ultimatum to Bozo. However, given that Bozo was threatened, he has every right to retaliate with force.
Next, we see Butthead respawning despite the raise offer. Now, whether a raise was offered or not is irrelevant. It has no bearing on why someone was killed. Butthead then goes out to attack Bozo. Herein lies the clinching evidence. According to the facts supplied, there was no more RP, but rather a simple attack. Even if he had RP’ed attacking, it would be a bit ridiculous since he respawned. Thus, our culprit is Butthead.
On a side note…for all Buttheads out there…be careful who you threaten with death, as you give them immediate cause for killing you.
Fact: Ninjas are mammals
Fact: Ninjas fight ALL the time
Fact: Ninjas fight ALL the time
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Ghost4life
- Count
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- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:19 am
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temordae01
- Baron
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:30 am
Okay, lemme take a shot at this.
1. Butthead is apparently higher level than Beavis, but much lower level than Bozo.
2. At no time does this scenario say that Beavis lost the fight or died once he refuses to front the 1000gp. This means that either he ran away or is not dead yet in the fight.
3. Bozo metagamed with the party chat line Beavis used. Shame on him.
4. Once Butthead gets creamed by Bozo, he should know that the battle is lost and not return to the road where Bozo is, much less continue the battle.
5. TAKE THE RES!
1. Butthead is apparently higher level than Beavis, but much lower level than Bozo.
2. At no time does this scenario say that Beavis lost the fight or died once he refuses to front the 1000gp. This means that either he ran away or is not dead yet in the fight.
3. Bozo metagamed with the party chat line Beavis used. Shame on him.
4. Once Butthead gets creamed by Bozo, he should know that the battle is lost and not return to the road where Bozo is, much less continue the battle.
5. TAKE THE RES!
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
- Steven Weinberg
- Steven Weinberg
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Wing--Zero
- Duke
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:43 am
Re: Essay Contest
SCREW UPS!!!DM_Mystic wrote:Ok boys and girls, the following is a case that really happened recently, with minor embellishments here and there for the purpose of clarifying the case. The names have been changed to protect the innocent (and the guilty). Read the following excerpt, point out what (if anything) was done wrong, who is at fault, when and why. There might be a prize for the best, most complete answer. Other DM's: Please refrain from posting until we've had a reasonable number of player responses.
1. A bandit type p/c who we'll call Butthead takes up a position on Blackstone Road and decides to extort payment to pass. His level is unkown
2. A lower level adventurer called Beavis encounters Butthead on the road.
3. Butthead accosts Beavis and announces "1000 gold or your life!"
4. Beavis replies "Never, now let me pass"
5. Beavis announces in Party Chat that somone is on blackstone road doing this
6. Bozo, a member of this party says that he'll be right there
7. Butthead asks "You mean you life isn't worth 1000 gold?" Then proceeds to go hostile on Beavis, and attacks.
8. At about this time, Bozo shows up. Butthead asks the same question with the same results. Since Bozo is an epic character, he smites Butthead with little effort.
9. Bozo offers Butthead a rez, but Butthead chooses to respawn instead.
10. Butthead returns to the scene and resumes attacking Bozo, and finds himself eating daisies. Bozo again offers a rez, but Butthead logs out.
Have fun with this one, and try to keep your essays under 500 words. I know for some of you that will be quite difficult.
1.Butthead was asking for gold and threating newbs...wich is aginst the rules
2. Bevis could have rped it went in the keep and got someone to help him pass
3. Bevis meta gamed and asked in party for someone to help.
4. Bozo meta gamed by agreeing to it and magically had his charicter go for a stroll in the hamlet
5. Butthead did not get the consent of Bevis to attack him
6. Butthead respawns and comes back wich is also meta gameing. Once your dead your dead. You shouldnt come back.
7. This one im kinda iffy about. Butthead did say "give me the gold or i'll kill you" so in a way thats him giveing his consent to Bozo I do belive but, techinically they nevver went ooc and asked for each others consent. If you ask me all three were in the wrong at some point or another.
8. LOL and if your rping it right...you dont offer a dead person a raise b/c they cant anwser you...THERE DEAD!!!. Its your job to res them any way and have them lay down for the remainder of the rp.
Duo Maxwell
Auran Goodman
Damian Goodman
Daniel Goodman
Karn
Aye Spyu
Heia The Deamon
and some others
Log-ins: Zero, X, X_Mule, Z_mule
Auran Goodman
Damian Goodman
Daniel Goodman
Karn
Aye Spyu
Heia The Deamon
and some others
Log-ins: Zero, X, X_Mule, Z_mule
Butthead wasn't technically in the wrong until he attacked Beavis, he should have asked ooc for consent first. He rp'd his char type.. bandit.
Beavis should have taken screen shots. Also, did beavis ask for help in party or just mention the situation? If it was the first choice he was in the wrong too.
Bozo was metagaming, he should not have become involved in the situation.... but, Butthead isn't to know this and RP's his bandit with the same question ( again attacks with no consent)
Bozo is not obliged to res Butthead as he was attacked without consent
Beavis should have taken screen shots. Also, did beavis ask for help in party or just mention the situation? If it was the first choice he was in the wrong too.
Bozo was metagaming, he should not have become involved in the situation.... but, Butthead isn't to know this and RP's his bandit with the same question ( again attacks with no consent)
Bozo is not obliged to res Butthead as he was attacked without consent
Okay, really good posts here. You guys do me proud! Everyone that responded will get a prize of some sort, I'll figure out what. Now, I'll give my take on this, which is not the "End-All, great Oz has spoken!!" (we'll leave that for Driller *nudge nudge wink wink*)
Anyways, (Oooh, I get to quote myself!)
1. A bandit type p/c who we'll call Butthead takes up a position on Blackstone Road and decides to extort payment to pass. His level is unkown
This isn't a rule violation per say, but not a very good idea. Blackstone Road is busy enough with spawns and hunting, and doesn't really need someone extorting newbs for what little they have. In many cases, said newb might be killed by a skel or some hurled vomit before getting a line of text out. I'd fell better about this if it were in the Hamlet, before the transition, or the North end by Skara, or actually in Skara by the trans.
5. Beavis announces in Party Chat that somone is on blackstone road doing this
Questionable, but not breaking any rule. But yeah, when Bozo "Sudeenly just happens to arrive" that's where the metagaming began. Note: Metagaming isn't against any rule, it's just lame.
7. Butthead asks "You mean you life isn't worth 1000 gold?" Then proceeds to go hostile on Beavis, and attacks.
This is a biggy and probably the biggest point of contention on the mod. But someone above got it right. In order for PvP to be legit, you MUST allow the other player the ability to opt out/say no/ etc. Making a threat, and then attacking without at least a reasonable amount of time to pass is unacceptable. On the flipside, making that threat, by its very nature, would have given Beavis ample cause to PvP, as it does for Bozo later in the scenario.
9. Bozo offers Butthead a rez, but Butthead chooses to respawn instead.
Offering an OOC res is required on BSK. Plus, it's a nice thing to do.
10. Butthead returns to the scene and resumes attacking Bozo, and finds himself eating daisies. Bozo again offers a rez, but Butthead logs out.
Dead is dead! Once you get killed, you don't just hop back into the battle, whether it's a raise or a respawn. You should make every effort to avoid that char, at least until after next reset. The only exception that I could see is if there's a major battle going on and one of your teammates raises you.
Once again, thanks for the responses, and I'll be looking for you all in game. Hope everyone got a few good take-aways from this, and I'm sure there will be more postings to this thread.
[/quote]
Anyways, (Oooh, I get to quote myself!)
1. A bandit type p/c who we'll call Butthead takes up a position on Blackstone Road and decides to extort payment to pass. His level is unkown
This isn't a rule violation per say, but not a very good idea. Blackstone Road is busy enough with spawns and hunting, and doesn't really need someone extorting newbs for what little they have. In many cases, said newb might be killed by a skel or some hurled vomit before getting a line of text out. I'd fell better about this if it were in the Hamlet, before the transition, or the North end by Skara, or actually in Skara by the trans.
5. Beavis announces in Party Chat that somone is on blackstone road doing this
Questionable, but not breaking any rule. But yeah, when Bozo "Sudeenly just happens to arrive" that's where the metagaming began. Note: Metagaming isn't against any rule, it's just lame.
7. Butthead asks "You mean you life isn't worth 1000 gold?" Then proceeds to go hostile on Beavis, and attacks.
This is a biggy and probably the biggest point of contention on the mod. But someone above got it right. In order for PvP to be legit, you MUST allow the other player the ability to opt out/say no/ etc. Making a threat, and then attacking without at least a reasonable amount of time to pass is unacceptable. On the flipside, making that threat, by its very nature, would have given Beavis ample cause to PvP, as it does for Bozo later in the scenario.
9. Bozo offers Butthead a rez, but Butthead chooses to respawn instead.
Offering an OOC res is required on BSK. Plus, it's a nice thing to do.
10. Butthead returns to the scene and resumes attacking Bozo, and finds himself eating daisies. Bozo again offers a rez, but Butthead logs out.
Dead is dead! Once you get killed, you don't just hop back into the battle, whether it's a raise or a respawn. You should make every effort to avoid that char, at least until after next reset. The only exception that I could see is if there's a major battle going on and one of your teammates raises you.
Once again, thanks for the responses, and I'll be looking for you all in game. Hope everyone got a few good take-aways from this, and I'm sure there will be more postings to this thread.
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