Role Play Barriers

[ST_DM_Myle]

Beefing up the guards might be an idea, but making them unkillable would take some of the fun out of being evil. Since we don't want the Keep PvP, we should at least leave it so the guards can be defeated with sufficent effort.

I would not want MORE guards... Each NPC adds to the server resourses beig used, but having the guards range a bit wider and perhaps having them "call" for other guards to help them once they get down to 30% of thier health sounds reasonable.

As for keeping them off the portal or from walking inbetween people at the tree.... I agree it is annoying ( really annoying! ), but it really is just a minor issue.

Myle

[Katar]

A system that really seems to work well on an NWN2 server I've played is to have a few trusted players act as guards. They have a special character that indicates their official guard status in the character name. That character can only be used during that players' assigned city guard shift. Nothing can be transferred between that character and any of that player's other characters. That guard is outfitted in the official guard uniform and has special equipment provided by the crown.

There are enough of these player guards chosen , to account for different timezones and schedules of play. They roleplay capturing and jailing villains. They make people sheath their wpns in town, catch pp'ers, imprison ooc violaters(foul mouth, griefers,etc), help newbies with pieces of information and rumors, and just generally rp the part of a city guard.
They don't ban anyone but they can report violators to the dms for banning and they do have the power to jail people for the duration of a reset or more.

It works well on that server and it surprisingly generates alot of rp.

[Doofy Britches]

Beefing up the guards might be an idea, but making them unkillable would take some of the fun out of being evil. Since we don't want the Keep PvP, we should at least leave it so the guards can be defeated with sufficent effort.

I would not want MORE guards... Each NPC adds to the server resourses beig used, but having the guards range a bit wider and perhaps having them "call" for other guards to help them once they get down to 30% of thier health sounds reasonable.

As for keeping them off the portal or from walking inbetween people at the tree.... I agree it is annoying ( really annoying! ), but it really is just a minor issue.

Myle

Ack.. sorry Myle- I should have clarified-

I'm not for having the guards unkillable.. and I AM for having the doggone Thief Guild Leader NPC killable!!

Love your suggestions as to the "call" feature for the guards. I've seen that work very well on other servers.

[ST_DM_Myle]

The Rogue Guilds NPC leader is not killable for a good reason.

Once people consider the possible reasons and remove the desire to smack that SOB in the face, that reason may be realized.

I hate that guy also.... I have had rogue characters who can't use the front gate because I do not want them to have obligations to any organization.

Myle

[chbtartdat]

Beefing up the guards might be an idea, but making them unkillable would take some of the fun out of being evil. Since we don't want the Keep PvP, we should at least leave it so the guards can be defeated with sufficent effort.

I would not want MORE guards... Each NPC adds to the server resourses beig used, but having the guards range a bit wider and perhaps having them "call" for other guards to help them once they get down to 30% of thier health sounds reasonable.

As for keeping them off the portal or from walking inbetween people at the tree.... I agree it is annoying ( really annoying! ), but it really is just a minor issue.

Myle

You just contradicted yourself. You want evil to be able to kill NPCs without retribution inside the keep, but you want the keep to be non-PvP. Sorry, it shouldn't work that way. If the evil PC wants to kill guards willy nilly, there should be a consequence. Immediate and undeniable smack-down. The Lord of the keep should be furious that his guards are being slaughtered while everyone stands around or the rest of his guards are unable to bring law and order to his peaceful castle. Give them forged items then. Make them nigh invulerable then instead of unkillable.

[Doofy Britches]

The Rogue Guilds NPC leader is not killable for a good reason.

Once people consider the possible reasons and remove the desire to smack that SOB in the face, that reason may be realized.

I hate that guy also.... I have had rogue characters who can't use the front gate because I do not want them to have obligations to any organization.

Myle

Yup.. that's Sugroth's current issue.. can't kill him.... can't go through the front door. What's a poor barbarian to do? LoL...

No matter- it may make good sense to make the town guards a little more alert, maybe having a sheathed weapons rule in town with the guards enforcing it, or go to jail.. whether or not the keep goes PvP.. or stays non-PvP.... it might make things a bit "saucier" around the keep.
It might make mischief makers think a little harder before goofing off.. if wards keep PC's from taking care of it.. the guards and jail time could intervene when things get out of hand.

I DO understand player frustrations at the random trouble-makers making a nuisance.. and talking trash.. then cowering in the keep so they are "safe".. and the desire to be able to put some smack-down on said trash talkers.

I guess I just see the issue one of being RP.. someone talks trash.. you call them on it.. they back down or wimp out- you go about your business... they come back and start it up again.. and then you go on "ignore". Or set that charater to "dislike" and go on ignore.
If enough people did that.. the "fun" would go out of taunting for boredom's sake.... and we'd see more real RP/plot based PvP/PK type scenarios- instead of boredom type ones, or just plain player courtesy violation based stuff.

That might go to Vio's point of getting players to be conditioned a little more to not go OCC with everything- to stay in character, and let the chips fall where they may. To play characters for the sake of the character- not for the build with the sole intent of causing mischief- and getting away with it, with no reprocussions.

Its hard to quell.. when it starts...we all get caught up in it to some degree. That's why they make Jagermeister... nothing like taking a break from it for a bit to let things cool down.

[GoVols]

I will say that I think RP is improved with the Keep being non-PVP. It helps seperate those interested in RP from those interested in being an asshat. RP'ers who are ready to PvP can always "step outside". However, if someone decides that they want to fight no matter how contrived and stupid their reason is, the wards in the keep prevent the jerk from turning what others intend to be dialogue and RP into a pointless bloodfest for a single persons amusement at the cost of everyone elses gaming experience.

Myle

Here we go again. Just to clarify to those that were not around for the years the keep WAS a PvP environment, it was total chaos, nobody played, nobody RP'd, nobody could level a character, it SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!

Bull$hit! There was plenty of RP in the keep, along with some fighting and the server was always crowded with people (MORE THAN NOW!!!!!). That's how BSK got it's start. I don't know what kind of a selective memory certain people have, but it's amazing the facts are so muddled. I leveled atleast 3-4 characters to 40 during that time, and had no leveling gear, etc. I'm not a big RP'er, but even I was forced to RP to get some assistance sometimes.

Come back BETH HALL!!! You'll love it now!

It's so funny that people whine about NOT wanting PvP in the keep then complain because they can't do anything about people killing a guard. We used to step in when someone killed a guard or commoner. Then again, we can't have players solving things IC now can we........heaven forbid!



Back to Viobane's points. It sounds like one big complaint that BSK isn't more of a heavy RP, low magic server. There are some with those exact qualities out there. Why not search some?

[Freddies Nightmares]

Back in the old days any events that were run in the keep..could be fought..warriors kicked butt..mages blasted their spells and clerics healed ...but atm the only thing that can be done in the keep is run or die heheh

I can personally remember the wars against good and evil that raged...

Yes there were innocent casualties but after it all ended they were raised..the RP was awesome..

Rped arguments and confrontations..even thieves ran in fear of gettin butt slapped by the ones they just pped...now sadly the keep is a playground where sneakers who pp can run and not fear getting killed

Bring back the old keep

[icequeen]

Back in the old days any events that were run in the keep..could be fought..warriors kicked butt..mages blasted their spells and clerics healed ...but atm the only thing that can be done in the keep is run or die heheh

I can personally remember the wars against good and evil that raged...

Yes there were innocent casualties but after it all ended they were raised..the RP was awesome..

Rped arguments and confrontations..even thieves ran in fear of gettin butt slapped by the ones they just pped...now sadly the keep is a playground where sneakers who pp can run and not fear getting killed

Bring back the old keep

It was also fun seeing lots of dead peeeeps around the keep

Shame its not like that now

I say bring the Old Keep back :D:D

[Doofy Britches]

Come back BETH HALL!!! You'll love it now!

GoVols-

I've only been here 18 months. Who was Beth Hall? I would like to hear how things were- and why some (I'd say most) of the more senior player base is very much in favor of a PvP keep.

My only basis to draw from is on how things have been since I joined Feb 06. And what Driller had written previoulsy about the amount of trouble it caused and such.. and why he put restrictions in place.

Now with Driller saying the keep is a bit too stale.. and the raw element that once was here is missing..and a lot of the old players agreeing- I'd like to hear about it-

Clearly- if the keep was once that way.. and the player based really liked it that way.. that must've cause some huge upheaval when it was changed- and yet it was changed for a reason(s)-

Would just like to understand, as it relates to Vio's thread topic/posting.

[Caesius]

A keep without wards encourages personal responsibility amongst the players as they take their security in their own hands but presents a hazard for new players to contend with.

A keep with wards encourages more new players to keep playing since they have a safe base of operations to orient themselves at. But the price is that players are now prevented from taking personal responsibility in protecting the keep.

If I am playing a powerful spellcaster for example, and a DM unleashes monsters in the keep, that character probably won't bother trying to help thinking: "Hmm, they took away my spells(guns) and they don't want me to act like some 'vigilante' so I'll just leave for a bit and let the guards deal with this... oh dear, it seems that Foxmore's precious wards doesn't stop the magical attacks of monsters. Guess it's only useful for collectively shooting ourselves in the foot. Oh well, not my problem."

I don't care all that much whether the wards remain or not. I'm just saying that while you may attract more players, is sacrificing the "Wild West" flavor of the keep truly worth it? This is probably a question that will be debated for a long time to come.

[viobane]

Back to Viobane's points. It sounds like one big complaint that BSK isn't more of a heavy RP, low magic server. There are some with those exact qualities out there. Why not search some?

Ah, thank you GoVols for following through on my first post on this thread. I knew someone wouldn't let me down! Please consider reading this paragraph again. I am not attempting to pressure BSK to be RP heavy. I am stating that the "lite RP" either be implemented better or that BSK become a pure action server.

So. I'm sure that this post will receive some responses that fit into the "if you don't like it, leave" category. I am posting this as feedback, overall, to the community and to the DMs and driller. This is all about the role play aspects. BSK is advertised as RP-Lite. This is all fine and good, but for me, it seems that the lite is becoming lighter and lighter in favor of action and battle. It could be time to tip the balance back a bit. I think that the DMs working on epic events is a start in the right direction, but those will only happen during the event in question. This speaks more to the overall atmosphere, and if PvP becomes open in the keep, I think all of these points will become even more obvious.

[driller]

I think the whole thread is absurd. The only thing that is a barrier to RP is your own imagination.

-driller

[viobane]

I think the whole thread is absurd. The only thing that is a barrier to RP is your own imagination.

-driller

Well, i disagree *completely* but that's what it's all about, isn't it? If it were all about imagination, then there would be almost nothing that could jar you away from the illusion of the character you are playing. My post is all about the places on BSK that, in my opinion, take me and others away from the illusion and turn the RP into little more than a Final Fantasy or Diablo kill the enemies sort of game where there is zero personality to the characters being played.

And, it is unfortunate that feedback being given is viewed as absurd, as it has little overall to do with you, driller, and more to do with the player base as a whole. Sure the mechanics of the server itself play into some of my points, but it's the people playing with those mechanics that generate life into the game.

[driller]

Hmm....

-driller

the people playing with those mechanics that generate life into the game.