Role Play Barriers

[viobane]

I have seen a number of people complain about the lack of RP at BSK. I have consistently disagreed with these statements, and still do. HOWEVER, I have noticed recently that role playing at BSK has a number of problems that make it difficult to justify the effort involved in RPing out situations:

1) No monitoring or enforcement of RP

Now this is, I know, not something BSK does since it is RP Lite. However, the problem with this, and the barrier to RP, is that you have to find very specific people who share your RP angles. This leads to frustration at best, disgust and bad feelings at worst. People form guilds, which helps some, but the difficulty with these is that I have rarely seen such guild members online, and they do not have an active recruiting center or information in game about their organizations. The only thing I can think of to help with this point (since I know RP enforcement is not going to happen), is to have dedicated factions, as I have seen on some servers. You go to a region where you are an opposing faction, you get attacked. If you are a part of that faction, there are sometimes specific faction shops and quests. I think the idea of an evil slanted series of quests would be a step in the direction toward this, but right now, the only factions I have noted are divided by deities. And there are few distinguishing characteristics for each deity.

2) Quick to battle

When I have attempted to RP verbally, I have found that people are quick to respond by use of force. This is all fine and good dependent on the situation. However, characters with uber forged items are at a distinct advantage that cannot be matched by anyone other than similarly uber forged characters. In a sense, the high magic and forge capabilities create an environment that make RP that much more difficult. I think Myle mentioned a situation once where a level 1 verbally intimidated a level 40 and got them to back down. There's little of that sort of interaction (that I've seen) except for maybe around the tree.

3) Rushing to level 40

For some reason, there seems to be a wanton rush for characters to make it to level 40, and then they begin to role play. This is really too bad, because level 40 is supposed to be the pinnacle of achievement and characters who reach this level should in theory be legends and epic to the extreme. I've heard people complain about there being not a lot to do after level 40. I say that there's not enough effort put forth by players to play out their character's personality before then.

4) OOC Problems

The entire quick rez system, the high spell resistance and damage resistance. Many spells being pointless due to mechanics. Players who are entirely OOC infringing on people playing IC. People killing commoners and guards in the keep with no obvious consequences. Most people going to the same areas to grind their characters. The plotline to the mod being brushed under the carpet in favor of loot gathering. I'm sure there are more.

5) Evil and Good overplayed

I know this gets down to the debate about alignment philosophy, but I can't help but think that the number of people playing uber evil who kills everything in sight for the heck of it and uber good killing everything they detect as being evil are both ways that the entire atmosphere becomes difficult to play to the grey areas.

6) Too many strengths, not enough weaknesses

BSK has a FLOOD of items and methods to creating overpowered characters. This, I think, is one of the reasons the entire server is so popular. People can build their characters up and feel a sense of ultimate power. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it can become a setup for people forgetting to RP out their weaknesses (partially because there are few other than the balances between different character choices and builds)

So. I'm sure that this post will receive some responses that fit into the "if you don't like it, leave" category. I am posting this as feedback, overall, to the community and to the DMs and driller. This is all about the role play aspects. BSK is advertised as RP-Lite. This is all fine and good, but for me, it seems that the lite is becoming lighter and lighter in favor of action and battle. It could be time to tip the balance back a bit. I think that the DMs working on epic events is a start in the right direction, but those will only happen during the event in question. This speaks more to the overall atmosphere, and if PvP becomes open in the keep, I think all of these points will become even more obvious.

[BaskingDemon]

No wards, no pvp restrictions, no big brother watching over to make sure everyone plays nicely and shares out the sweets. That'll do.

[HelloBSK]

I agree with the fact that there are rules or factors that make RP hard to truely do because of the restrictions it places and frustration is causes.

However, I disagree with if BSK allows for PvP in town that it will become worse. I for one feel it would make it better because certain people will not be able to act a foul and not pay the consequences. I think a lot of the problem people are having is because the CORE of BSK and I mean the players who have a vested interest in the success of BSK are unable to maintain BALANCE because you are unable to in town. AND THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO, WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS, because there are no reprocutions (again I can not spell).

Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

[ValentianNizzle]

I always liked a challenge... Until I realize the maker/creator forgot to give the challenge a solution.

[viobane]

As my reasoning above points to... I don't think it's a question of PvP or not PvP in the keep. This goes beyond this simple aspect. It has to do with the protecting the rights of all to play however they want, which in a sense infringes upon those who are trying to RP thing out by default. Even if PvP was allowed in the keep, if the attitude is that you should respect others rights on how to play (with limits set on insults/sexual content, etc), then a Rper can try and solve issues that come up IC, but the OOC will typically MAKE things OOC. It ruins the atmosphere, and the ability to play a character in a way that creates a PC with personality and IC responses.

[HelloBSK]

As my reasoning above points to... I don't think it's a question of PvP or not PvP in the keep. This goes beyond this simple aspect. It has to do with the protecting the rights of all to play however they want, which in a sense infringes upon those who are trying to RP thing out by default. Even if PvP was allowed in the keep, if the attitude is that you should respect others rights on how to play (with limits set on insults/sexual content, etc), then a Rper can try and solve issues that come up IC, but the OOC will typically MAKE things OOC. It ruins the atmosphere, and the ability to play a character in a way that creates a PC with personality and IC responses.

I completely agree to this. I will also say that I CAN NOT stand it when after RPing a first time meeting with someone and then partying up with thim, RPing while we adventure and all of that. I mainly stay in character... I can not stand when I do say something either in party with // or in a tell, and the person says "Please stay in character as you are ruining my RP". WHAT? That just drives me NUTS!

I love to RP my characters, but I also like to acknowledge that there is a person controlling the character. But, what ever!

[viobane]

As my reasoning above points to... I don't think it's a question of PvP or not PvP in the keep. This goes beyond this simple aspect. It has to do with the protecting the rights of all to play however they want, which in a sense infringes upon those who are trying to RP thing out by default. Even if PvP was allowed in the keep, if the attitude is that you should respect others rights on how to play (with limits set on insults/sexual content, etc), then a Rper can try and solve issues that come up IC, but the OOC will typically MAKE things OOC. It ruins the atmosphere, and the ability to play a character in a way that creates a PC with personality and IC responses.

I completely agree to this. I will also say that I CAN NOT stand it when after RPing a first time meeting with someone and then partying up with thim, RPing while we adventure and all of that. I mainly stay in character... I can not stand when I do say something either in party with // or in a tell, and the person says "Please stay in character as you are ruining my RP". WHAT? That just drives me NUTS!

I love to RP my characters, but I also like to acknowledge that there is a person controlling the character. But, what ever!

OOC party chat or tells are not what I'm talking about. That's not an issue for me. It becomes an issue when there is an active IC attempt to RP out a situation, but due to various reasons, the IC RP turns to OOC battle.

[eclipse08]

I have a solution: Make the BSK Guards tougher and more responsive to acts of violence. Have them warn players that they need to put away their weapons or they will be put in jail or worse if they resist. Give the guards haste items and more powerful glowy forged weapons. That way when the uber forged miscreants decide to uprise they will be put down forcefully. Make the characters who decide to forgo the "lite" part of their experience and engage in wanton destruction in the keep pay for their actions. How about them apples?

[HelloBSK]

As my reasoning above points to... I don't think it's a question of PvP or not PvP in the keep. This goes beyond this simple aspect. It has to do with the protecting the rights of all to play however they want, which in a sense infringes upon those who are trying to RP thing out by default. Even if PvP was allowed in the keep, if the attitude is that you should respect others rights on how to play (with limits set on insults/sexual content, etc), then a Rper can try and solve issues that come up IC, but the OOC will typically MAKE things OOC. It ruins the atmosphere, and the ability to play a character in a way that creates a PC with personality and IC responses.

I completely agree to this. I will also say that I CAN NOT stand it when after RPing a first time meeting with someone and then partying up with thim, RPing while we adventure and all of that. I mainly stay in character... I can not stand when I do say something either in party with // or in a tell, and the person says "Please stay in character as you are ruining my RP". WHAT? That just drives me NUTS!

I love to RP my characters, but I also like to acknowledge that there is a person controlling the character. But, what ever!

OOC party chat or tells are not what I'm talking about. That's not an issue for me. It becomes an issue when there is an active IC attempt to RP out a situation, but due to various reasons, the IC RP turns to OOC battle.

Yea I don't like that either. Sorry for the rant

[killtspar]

It is my impression that this an RP-lite server. As such, it should be expected that some players simply do not take part in roleplay. Personally, I like the roleplay aspect and I do take part in it but I don't go off the deep end or get too overly involved. When I play my PC's I do roleplay them as they should be. I usually try to find other like-minded players and just stick to playing with them. I like the dynamics of having players who do roleplay and others who don't. I don't like "enforcement" of roleplay because I think that's overdoing it. I think that for those of us who do enjoy the roleplay aspect, we just do our part to remind those we play with that we do enjoy the roleplay aspect and ask them to please roleplay while in Talk or Party mode. Private chat is for OOC and for those seldom times when necessary, the // can be used in Talk or Party to quickly work something out. Beyond that, people should be allowed to play somewhat freely. When the RP player base gets around the non-RP player base then just leave and go elsewhere. That's what I do pretty much. It comes down to simply asking those we play with to respect our play style. Most people can do this for a little while with no problem if asked.

P.S. I have a True Neutral Bladecaster who is played with a certain meditative balanced perspective.

[ST_DM_Myle]

I have seen a number of people complain about the lack of RP at BSK. I have consistently disagreed with these statements, and still do. HOWEVER, I have noticed recently that role playing at BSK has a number of problems that make it difficult to justify the effort involved in RPing out situations:

1) No monitoring or enforcement of RP

Now this is, I know, not something BSK does since it is RP Lite. However, the problem with this, and the barrier to RP, is that you have to find very specific people who share your RP angles. This leads to frustration at best, disgust and bad feelings at worst. People form guilds, which helps some, but the difficulty with these is that I have rarely seen such guild members online, and they do not have an active recruiting center or information in game about their organizations. The only thing I can think of to help with this point (since I know RP enforcement is not going to happen), is to have dedicated factions, as I have seen on some servers. You go to a region where you are an opposing faction, you get attacked. If you are a part of that faction, there are sometimes specific faction shops and quests. I think the idea of an evil slanted series of quests would be a step in the direction toward this, but right now, the only factions I have noted are divided by deities. And there are few distinguishing characteristics for each deity.

2) Quick to battle

When I have attempted to RP verbally, I have found that people are quick to respond by use of force. This is all fine and good dependent on the situation. However, characters with uber forged items are at a distinct advantage that cannot be matched by anyone other than similarly uber forged characters. In a sense, the high magic and forge capabilities create an environment that make RP that much more difficult. I think Myle mentioned a situation once where a level 1 verbally intimidated a level 40 and got them to back down. There's little of that sort of interaction (that I've seen) except for maybe around the tree.

3) Rushing to level 40

For some reason, there seems to be a wanton rush for characters to make it to level 40, and then they begin to role play. This is really too bad, because level 40 is supposed to be the pinnacle of achievement and characters who reach this level should in theory be legends and epic to the extreme. I've heard people complain about there being not a lot to do after level 40. I say that there's not enough effort put forth by players to play out their character's personality before then.

4) OOC Problems

The entire quick rez system, the high spell resistance and damage resistance. Many spells being pointless due to mechanics. Players who are entirely OOC infringing on people playing IC. People killing commoners and guards in the keep with no obvious consequences. Most people going to the same areas to grind their characters. The plotline to the mod being brushed under the carpet in favor of loot gathering. I'm sure there are more.

5) Evil and Good overplayed

I know this gets down to the debate about alignment philosophy, but I can't help but think that the number of people playing uber evil who kills everything in sight for the heck of it and uber good killing everything they detect as being evil are both ways that the entire atmosphere becomes difficult to play to the grey areas.

6) Too many strengths, not enough weaknesses

BSK has a FLOOD of items and methods to creating overpowered characters. This, I think, is one of the reasons the entire server is so popular. People can build their characters up and feel a sense of ultimate power. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it can become a setup for people forgetting to RP out their weaknesses (partially because there are few other than the balances between different character choices and builds)

So. I'm sure that this post will receive some responses that fit into the "if you don't like it, leave" category. I am posting this as feedback, overall, to the community and to the DMs and driller. This is all about the role play aspects. BSK is advertised as RP-Lite. This is all fine and good, but for me, it seems that the lite is becoming lighter and lighter in favor of action and battle. It could be time to tip the balance back a bit. I think that the DMs working on epic events is a start in the right direction, but those will only happen during the event in question. This speaks more to the overall atmosphere, and if PvP becomes open in the keep, I think all of these points will become even more obvious.

While not 100% right, your so close to the mark that trying to nitpick the minor deviations would undermine the excellence of this post.

I will say that I think RP is improved with the Keep being non-PVP. It helps seperate those interested in RP from those interested in being an asshat. RP'ers who are ready to PvP can always "step outside". However, if someone decides that they want to fight no matter how contrived and stupid their reason is, the wards in the keep prevent the jerk from turning what others intend to be dialogue and RP into a pointless bloodfest for a single persons amusement at the cost of everyone elses gaming experience.

Myle

[chbtartdat]

I have a solution: Make the BSK Guards tougher and more responsive to acts of violence. Have them warn players that they need to put away their weapons or they will be put in jail or worse if they resist. Give the guards haste items and more powerful glowy forged weapons. That way when the uber forged miscreants decide to uprise they will be put down forcefully. Make the characters who decide to forgo the "lite" part of their experience and engage in wanton destruction in the keep pay for their actions. How about them apples?

That sounds like a good idea, even if we keep the um...well keep non-PvP. I've seen so many dunderheads running around killing NPCs and the guards not doing a darn thing about it. Does the keep hire real guards? Not seeing it. Have guard archers manning the ramparts to catch those evil-doers in a hail of arrows as well. No one will mess with the keep's peace ever again.

[eclipse08]

OOOoooo...archers on the ramparts. I forgot about that. I like it. Give them those nasty isaac's arrows from Akon and no one will mess with BSK guards. Hehe.

[temordae01]

Just make the current BSK guards unkillable. Like that Gods Be Damned thieve's guild leader.

[Doofy Britches]

Just make the current BSK guards unkillable. Like that Gods Be Damned thieve's guild leader.

I couldn't agree more with that statement!!

Serioulsy.. why could not the guards be "beefed" up a bit more.. (more of them).. and why not have some additional rules/scripts that provide a little more interraction.. (weapons sheathed or go to jail).. would be fun to have to break into the jail to bust your friends out... would give SD/Rouge/Assassin something to do besides PP all the time.

I would be in favor of more interractive guards whether the keep was no PvP or not.

As long as a sign was posted to keep them off of the _*(#)(*@ portal gate.....