PvP in the keep

[Pharo_IK]

I was here as a newbie when the Keep was PvP.

I can tell you that it had pros and cons.

One major pro:
DM's could actually include the Keep in their events and could allow full fledged combat, even guild/faction fights, that were either part of the RP or sometimes lead to RP.

One major con:
I got PP'd so much that I would not go to the Keep any longer than absolutely necessary. It caused players like me who did not have uber build to be forced NOT to RP around the tree if we liked to live or wanted to keep our stuff.

I lost several fully forged swords, armors and other things. I once lost a pair of forged dragon slippers I was wearing as I walked through town.... I WAS WEARING THEM.

As a new player I was fairly well pissed off and only stayed on BSK because I had become involved in several fun RP's and Driller was testing what was then the new PP script.

The amount of greifing got so bad, however, that I stopped RP'ing in the keep at all unless a DM was around or the keep was full of Starksonites or Hunters. I just hung out in the Temple alcoves using whisper to RP and keeping Truesight on.




As for this claim that Spot helps stop PP, your wrong. My Spot goes up to 120 with truesight, higher if I add a few items . Having a high spot has NEVER stopped me from being PP'd. Having a high spot only allows you to KNOW that you were PP'd.

Knowing I was PP'd is not much use if some SOB has a stable of Monk/SD/Rog characters or a few friends and decides that he wants to PP some nice stuff off of my character.




The comments about avoiding the Keep if we do not like the grief.... thats fine. I even did that. Then everyone said I was an RP elitiest and I was dragging all the RP into my guild and whined that they was not able to participate.



So which is it?
Am I supposed to RP where I feel safe or am I a part of some elite RP clique that hordes all the good RP?

You guys need to make up your minds and lose the catch-22.




Personally, my preference would be for Driller and the DM's to be FASTER on the banning of jerks and stop tolerating the kinds of people that make me want the Keep non-PvP.

I would not mind the Keep being Party-PvP if greifers who PK'd and PP'd were not going to be drawn there like white on rice.


But the fact is, everytime Driller has tested the idea of going back to having the Keep PvP, it only took a short time for all the griefers to break out their PP characters.



And the Irony is... When I killed the one who PP'd me, everyone told me I was overreacting because I would not let anyone raise him and I was forcing him to respawn.


I RP in the Keep now because I do not have to spend the whole time buffing and fully geared so that I am able to deal with jerks or at least survive if I have to retreat.

Or perhaps all you other vets forget the days when all the buffed casters at the tree would crash the server over and over and over and.....




What's that?... Why yes your correct:
Inside the Starkson courtyard is PvP, but... my courtyard comes with the rules posted at the entry to the isle on the dock. If someone acts the fool, I will deal with them. If all else fails I can step into my castle ... which is much more enjoyable to RP in than a cramped shop or temple alcove.

While the inside of my guild may be PvP, there are doors and passages and no griefing morons to deal with.





So sure... Make the Keep PvP....
But then the griefers need to be dealt with quickly and permanently rather than given 40 thousand "one more chances"
AND
If I retreat to my castle to RP, do not whine the song about how elitiest I am.


Otherwise, just leave well enough alone.

After all, it is bad enough that people mouth off in the Keep too much sometimes as it is... lets not allow them the enjoyment of actually grief killing and PP'ing also.





also, my disclaimer:
Any character who PP's any PC within sight of my character will be forever on my characters list to KOS until the PP'r RP's making amends to the person they PP'd in sight of my characters.
The equation is very simple: Keep your fingers off people in my presence and I will not kill you each chance I get.




Pharo

[Roland Deschain]

All RIght, this topic I started back a while ago needs to be brought back to life.....

PvP in the keep is NEEDED

Now for those of you who do not want it for the following reason
PP'ers will run wild, Pk'ers will run wild.

Ok both of those can be dealt with by characters of equal power. PP can be stopped with something as simple as a few points in spot and a scroll.

If someone abuses PP or PvP then screenshot it and send it to a DM. Because the rules atm are slowing RP down.

Alright what good is a group of good or neutral characters that have no Evil to fight? What good is it to have a character that despises evil or good but cant RP the way they want to because they are in the keep and can't. The Keep has been non-pvp for as long as I have been playing, so I wasnt here when things got to the point where turning it to non-pvp was needed. But I would l like to see the keep pvp to see what kind of RP we can get going.

I have many friends who were here when the keep was pvp and they LOVED it. Sure you can be PP'd but that is easily avoided. Sure you can be attacked, but that is easily avoided (unless it is someone who just wants to log and randomly kill people BUT that is what screenies and a DM can fix if a few players can't)

I think pvp in the keep will do more good than bad. I think there will be more RP, and I think the player base will grow as well.

[Hordack]

I as a thief support this ... making the keep PvP again would inspire more RP bettween the forces of good and evil .. in fact there are still few non-pvp area's around in the keep for those wanting quieter areas to RP such as "the Den".

Besides Thieve's are in fact a city creature and work the streets at night looking for their mark ... Yes I know what your thinking, but honestly as thief myself why should I be stuck to working the underdark when ... a real thief in the real world would in fact never leave the city to practice his trade.

Allowing PvP in the keep mite make it playing a rogue again as a PPer a good thing sence the server seems to be lacking any good Rogue's for me to recruit these day's.

Can't run a thieve's guild if one can't practice their trade in the enviroment the Thief is ment to and that is the city of Blackstone ... not waiting on some road for a player that may never come.

[Andrun]

I as a thief support this ... making the keep PvP again would inspire more RP bettween the forces of good and evil .. in fact there are still few non-pvp area's around in the keep for those wanting quieter areas to RP such as "the Den".

Besides Thieve's are in fact a city creature and work the streets at night looking for their mark ... Yes I know what your thinking, but honestly as thief myself why should I be stuck to working the underdark when ... a real thief in the real world would in fact never leave the city to practice his trade.

Allowing PvP in the keep mite make it playing a rogue again as a PPer a good thing sence the server seems to be lacking any good Rogue's for me to recruit these day's.

Can't run a thieve's guild if one can't practice their trade in the enviroment the Thief is ment to and that is the city of Blackstone ... not waiting on some road for a player that may never come.

As someone who has played 2 rather oblivious characters in the past that were ripe for pick-pocketing... I support this.

It would generate good RP for players who are smart enough to not abuse it. But as we all know, there are the few bad apples in the bunch that would spoil it for everyone, and I believe that there should be some ground rules for the town (like allowing players to cast spells to defend themselves).

And I really agree with Hordack's points on this...

... Thieves are, in fact, a city creature and work the streets at night looking for their mark ... a real thief in the real world would in fact never leave the city to practice his trade ...

My only point of contention is that there are those out there (not unlike a certain individual who, last night, thought it would be funny to bring Umgah mages to town) who would use this to do ill to players. We do have the one 'Blackstone Hamlet Murderer'. I do not wish to see more of that type of player.

[Alamore-Threepwood]

Good point, but you also have to remember da noobs, if this happened, I would just my monk mage with 120 spot, and kill any PPers that have pped me once on sight, over and over and over and over and over... (you get the point) but, for people who are just starting out, even losing say, a +10 weapon would be a great lost, or akon amulet, because they really don't have THAT MUCH, why do I know this, I tend to party with them, and about a year ago I was in the same spot, so, maybe if we tweaked PP so you can only get... say gold or items under the worth of like 2k, and give an insta 2 month ban for anyone that breaks PVP rules in the town, then sure, go with it, but once more, I gotta say, think of da noobs.

[Hordack]

Wanted to point out few things on PPing ... that you cannot PP large objects and if the scripts are working right you cannot PP somebody less the 7 levels of yourself ... and no more then 3 times within a reset on the same person.

So really pick pocketing is still controled ... and me personaly I only prey on those 40th level power builders anyways

[Alamore-Threepwood]

yea but can't you PP forgies, amulets, rings, and boots? And seeing how Forgies and dragon slippers are the most sought for 0.0

[Milk_Chocolate]

Good point, but you also have to remember da noobs, if this happened, I would just my monk mage with 120 spot, and kill any PPers that have pped me once on sight, over and over and over and over and over... (you get the point).

Ok right here you are referencing spam killing AND big brother justice (someone attacks/PPs your lowbie char, you log off and log back on with your decked out level 40 who just happens to know who robbed/killed your lowbie). Both are not RP or IC.

KEEP THE KEEP A NON PVP AREA.

Theives can PP in the tavern, I sure do.

All those self appointed vigilantes can uphold their view of "justice" in the many non pvp areas that a rule breaker is bound to stroll to (they cant stay in the keep forever).

Most importantly, theres too many immature level 40's who are just waiting for someone to say something slick to them so they can whip out their sword and thwack someone, notice the quote above.

Making the keep a party pvp area will do more harm than good. All I can suggest as a solution to upholding justice in the keep is the expand the DM team.

Expand the DM team and we have:
More justice
More events
Fewer people breaking rules
The comfort of having a pvp-free Keep

Make the Keep a PvP area and we have:
Corpses laying around when you log on (cuz theres always going to be some fighting going on)
Vigilantes running wild
[Organized] Villians running wild (ever wondered what will happen if there are villians strong enough to kick the vigilante's arses?)
Theives running wild
Random asshat PK'ers running wild
And oh yeah, a little bit of actual RP
Big brother bull crap
Rez/kill/rez/kill bull crap

So, yeah. No pvp plz.

[Hordack]

Most importantly, theres too many immature level 40's who are just waiting for someone to say something slick to them so they can whip out their sword and thwack someone, notice the quote above.

Immature 40 lvl would this include the one who brought the Umgah's into the keep?

This could had been provented if the players had the ablility to attack said "Druid" in the keep and stopped him.

solution to upholding justice in the keep is the expand the DM team.

What would be the point in expanding the DM time if the group known as the "Blackstone Hunter's" could in fact enforce laws in the keep allowing more RP value for player run events? why do we always need a DM to do something, Do not the players have the ability to creat their own events and to have fun?

[Organized] Villians running wild (ever wondered what will happen if there are villians strong enough to kick the vigilante's arses?)

So you fear the idea of a group like the Shadowstalker's taking over the Keep? Damn if I recall my history right some towns where in fact run by the thieve's guild's. Look at the RP value of it. The Shadowstalkers taking over the keep and the Hunter's tying to regain control or even the Starkson trying to protect those fleeing the keep.

Power to the Rogues!

Damn I should give you more credit you have given us more reasons for having the Keep as a PvP area. Thanks Dude for the RP idea's on player and guild run events to keep the RP going.

[Axe Madness]

the pvp isn't gana sky rocket just because we can pvp in 1 more area

evil has won before you just wasn't there

if this was to happen! i'd expect see thieves guild become more of a anti penty crime and big organized crime basically kill you for muggin a random then they'll hit up hunters lodge i'd expect see Coven come back. also give hunters a job again?

easy fix don't run your mouth no need for the stupid crap i see in arena like me>you or callin someone a noob your just askin for it no one is godly vs numbers and if you tick off enough people they will band together and kill you i know it's happened to me before

pvp in town yes will stop the stupid rp example: my bio says im a dragon slayer there for i can slay any dragon half breed or full blood i will walk up to you and say such things at lvl1 to a decked out lvl40 lvl40 goes uh-huh being that this person just said hey i kill your kind his reaction is going to be like outside? lvl1 just continues to run mouth like he's some important person

now somewhere in this huge 10pages of talkingness should somthin like (not actually gana look for it) once you kill the annoying player they will continue to run there mouth pvp can't stop only way it's stopped is let em have they way or a dm just happens to be there maybe moves persons to secret location where portals don't work

[Andrun]

KEEP THE KEEP A NON PVP AREA.

Blackstone Keep itself will be flagged for PvP activities, not the associated Inns, taverns, temple, etc. Also, I would like to make a recommendation that if this goes through to have a place like the Den (a commons area, like an inn, with no NPC chatter) flagged as a Non PvP area. A refuge for people when they just want to get away and RP.

All those self appointed vigilantes can uphold their view of "justice" in the many non pvp areas that a rule breaker is bound to stroll to (they cant stay in the keep forever).

What?

Most importantly, theres too many immature level 40's who are just waiting for someone to say something slick to them so they can whip out their sword and thwack someone, notice the quote above.

Hey, I know those guys. And this would keep them in check too because many of the people on this server are (or at least were at one point in time) good, level-headed people that would be more than happy to help those of lower level. And if someone shoots off their mouth, well, that's their own fault. Anyone with the maturity level past grade school can tell you this one.

Making the keep a party pvp area will do more harm than good. All I can suggest as a solution to upholding justice in the keep is the expand the DM team.

DM Team is fine. Moving on...

Make the Keep a PvP area and we have:
1.) Corpses laying around when you log on
2.) Vigilantes running wild
3.) [Organized] Villians running wild (ever wondered what will happen if there are villians strong enough to kick the vigilante's arses?)
4.) Theives running wild
5.) Random asshat PK'ers running wild
6.) And oh yeah, a little bit of actual RP
7.) Big brother bull crap
8.) Rez/kill/rez/kill bull crap

1.) No, because it would be one guy causing trouble. And last I checked, 1 guy versus two or three or four... the one guy loses. I think that you yourself experienced that lesson last night
2.) No need to be a vigilanty if the one you're seeking to track down is being a tool right next to you in the keep.
3.) What would happen is some mighty fine RP.
4.) Hordack already pointed this out in his previous post.
5.) The PKers (love your verbiage by the way. you do know children read these forums, correct?) always come out as one or two individuals. There's usually four or five people just at the tree. They would get smoked before they left town.
6.) And is a little more RP such a bad thing?
7.) The higher levels should be looking out for the lower levels. I fail to see the problem.
8.) And the time its taking this one individual to rez/kill.... they're getting attacked by whoever might be passing by.

also give hunters a job again

I have always thought that if a Hunter was to find a law-breaker in town they should and could do more than give them a verbal warning.

pvp in town yes will stop the stupid rp example

Kazrite/Vorite war in Blackstone? Why yes, I think that would be spectacular RP if done correctly.

I only prey on those 40th level power builders anyways

And they're not even all that malicious. You were charging what... 5,000g to get into Akons? If you're already going to Akons, seriously... what's 5,000gp to you? A drop in the proverbial bucket, that's what. Also, as for chosing targets in the Keep; if you found any non-guilded rogues operating in the city, that could cause issues. And if there are a few of them and they had their own guild... well... how much fun would be a sneaker gang-war be in Blackstone?

All for now.

[Jazelle]

Again I say no. No no no NO!

Why do you always go after the 1 place that is (and a entry area) NON pvp in the game. Everywhere else is pvp EVERYWHERE that include guild halls. Fine cut the size of the keep down, cut it back up into areas but sure as hell. LEAVE the entry and the tree non pvp. No it was not fun when it was pvp it was a pain to try to rp without someone causing hell. It will note be any fun for new folks trying to learn the game and the lay of the land. Holding auctions will be pretty much a pain with the ppers around.

Basically why do you guys always go after the 1 outside area that is non pvp? Why does all of BSK have to be pvp for you? Pharo is right. Do this and the guilds will just go inside and all the good rp will go with them.

For god's sake stop beating this dead horse and just be happy that 99% of the game is pvp.

[DM_Mystic]

The keep is never ever ever going to be PvP again, so you may as well dismiss the notion.

I don't know about the "wands" thing, but there's certain players who I trust implicitly. If they tell me that a certain yahoo is going around pk'ing unjustified, then it's as good as if I saw it myself, and that player will be at least imprisoned, if not banned.

[Milk_Chocolate]

The keep is never ever ever going to be PvP again, so you may as well dismiss the notion.

WOOT! Case closed, lock the forum =D>

[Alamore-Threepwood]

Hordack wrote:I only prey on those 40th level power builders anyways



And they're not even all that malicious. You were charging what... 5,000g to get into Akons? If you're already going to Akons, seriously... what's 5,000gp to you? A drop in the proverbial bucket, that's what. Also, as for chosing targets in the Keep; if you found any non-guilded rogues operating in the city, that could cause issues. And if there are a few of them and they had their own guild... well... how much fun would be a sneaker gang-war be in Blackstone?

All for now.

I normally make bets higher then that... and lose them 0.0