Blackstone Poll
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This is obviously turning into a heated debate and I would normally avoid a thread like this. But............
I don't understand making more items subject to pp (especially forge stones). If the intent is "really" to use pp as a trigger to initiate "rp", why does anything other than gold need to be picked??? If you walk down the street and someone steals your wallet with $20 in it or your $2000 rolex watch, do you act any different? No, you would chase the guy down, demand return and expect some type of punishment on the thief. So, why do items of high value need to be added to the pp's coffers? This is just a griefers heaven! The server will have drive-by type griefers that log in just to ruin the gameplay of others(including longtime regulars that will then get pissed and move on). When you detect a pp attempt - you get the message regardless of item value, so why allow more than a few gold to be taken? And then, there's no need to limit the number of attempts either because the loss isn't going to disable a character.
If the goal is really to initiate rp- make only gold subject to pp but make pp work everywhere. That way anyone who wants to rp over their loss can at any time, but noone loses something that takes forever to obtain and nothing so valuable that the griefers accomplish their intention of ruining someone's rl time.
The overall pvp thing puzzles me. The intent was for voluntary participation. There is an arena and a complete zone set aside for pvp. Those who consent to pvp go there - but those that don't want any pvp don't. Why does it have to be forced upon those that don't want it now?
I have only been around a few months. The server still interests me and I have alot of fun playing here. If it has become old or stale to the old timers then I'd suggest new areas with a more open ruleset, but I would not change the core rules.
There are alot of ways to stir up interest: run more small events - and maybe run the exact same event 2 or 3 times-to include all timezones into it rather than just those present when it occurs, have an "rper" of the month voted on here each month by the players/staff, start an arena pvp ladder, have a "faction day" on the server every once in a while where players are at war with the other faction as soon as they log on. Basically a server wide capture the flag type event.
Use the ingame bboards to post about upcoming server events. Have a bboard just for server notices. Direct those that are interested to come here and sign up so DM's know the interest in advance. I meet more players online that don't even know about or read this forum than the numbers that do visit the forum. This audience might not be representative of the real player base on this issue.
There are alot of things that can be done and players could be involved in planning and assisting in running these things too. I'm just not a big fan of forced permanent pvp to stir up excitement. Pvp can always be forced upon others, but rp can never be forced--so the rpers lose out.
I am sure some of you could barely wait long enough to finish this post before flaming...so go ahead
I don't understand making more items subject to pp (especially forge stones). If the intent is "really" to use pp as a trigger to initiate "rp", why does anything other than gold need to be picked??? If you walk down the street and someone steals your wallet with $20 in it or your $2000 rolex watch, do you act any different? No, you would chase the guy down, demand return and expect some type of punishment on the thief. So, why do items of high value need to be added to the pp's coffers? This is just a griefers heaven! The server will have drive-by type griefers that log in just to ruin the gameplay of others(including longtime regulars that will then get pissed and move on). When you detect a pp attempt - you get the message regardless of item value, so why allow more than a few gold to be taken? And then, there's no need to limit the number of attempts either because the loss isn't going to disable a character.
If the goal is really to initiate rp- make only gold subject to pp but make pp work everywhere. That way anyone who wants to rp over their loss can at any time, but noone loses something that takes forever to obtain and nothing so valuable that the griefers accomplish their intention of ruining someone's rl time.
The overall pvp thing puzzles me. The intent was for voluntary participation. There is an arena and a complete zone set aside for pvp. Those who consent to pvp go there - but those that don't want any pvp don't. Why does it have to be forced upon those that don't want it now?
I have only been around a few months. The server still interests me and I have alot of fun playing here. If it has become old or stale to the old timers then I'd suggest new areas with a more open ruleset, but I would not change the core rules.
There are alot of ways to stir up interest: run more small events - and maybe run the exact same event 2 or 3 times-to include all timezones into it rather than just those present when it occurs, have an "rper" of the month voted on here each month by the players/staff, start an arena pvp ladder, have a "faction day" on the server every once in a while where players are at war with the other faction as soon as they log on. Basically a server wide capture the flag type event.
Use the ingame bboards to post about upcoming server events. Have a bboard just for server notices. Direct those that are interested to come here and sign up so DM's know the interest in advance. I meet more players online that don't even know about or read this forum than the numbers that do visit the forum. This audience might not be representative of the real player base on this issue.
There are alot of things that can be done and players could be involved in planning and assisting in running these things too. I'm just not a big fan of forced permanent pvp to stir up excitement. Pvp can always be forced upon others, but rp can never be forced--so the rpers lose out.
I am sure some of you could barely wait long enough to finish this post before flaming...so go ahead
Add a merchant square non pvp there chars can RP and trade and all?
BUT allow pp there
as for pvp in keep and all, yeah but I think it needs to be checked on RP.... I would hate to see people who talk OMG! LOLZORS! I PWNED yous! go all crazy there....
BUT allow pp there
as for pvp in keep and all, yeah but I think it needs to be checked on RP.... I would hate to see people who talk OMG! LOLZORS! I PWNED yous! go all crazy there....
- Cajin "The Reborn"
- Kelth and William McEwann
- Ghûrzhazh Rhânanûr
-Duncan "The Hunk" Mackinlay
- Kelth and William McEwann
- Ghûrzhazh Rhânanûr
-Duncan "The Hunk" Mackinlay
I was thinking of a voting option to take care of griefers.
This vote would be in the form of a warrant for that player's arrest. This would be in the Keep only.
The player would go to Rodran and file a complaint. This would cover theft, murder, assault etc.
The accusing player would have to pay a fee to have the warrant served (We are talking about Rodran here).
A player must have initiated a hostile action in the keep against another player to be arrested.
The next time the guards perceive this player he will asked to come quietly, if he doesn't, he will be clubbed into submission and put in jail awaiting trial. He will be tried before an NPC judge.
Using magical investigation (scripting ), the magistrate will deduce whether the accused is guilty or not. The guilty character will be sentenced to work in the salt mines. Here he will work in the mines until he has repaid his debt to society, then he will be set free.
This could literally take hours of real time depending on the severity of the crime. The more arrests, the longer the successive sentences are.
-driller
This vote would be in the form of a warrant for that player's arrest. This would be in the Keep only.
The player would go to Rodran and file a complaint. This would cover theft, murder, assault etc.
The accusing player would have to pay a fee to have the warrant served (We are talking about Rodran here).
A player must have initiated a hostile action in the keep against another player to be arrested.
The next time the guards perceive this player he will asked to come quietly, if he doesn't, he will be clubbed into submission and put in jail awaiting trial. He will be tried before an NPC judge.
Using magical investigation (scripting ), the magistrate will deduce whether the accused is guilty or not. The guilty character will be sentenced to work in the salt mines. Here he will work in the mines until he has repaid his debt to society, then he will be set free.
This could literally take hours of real time depending on the severity of the crime. The more arrests, the longer the successive sentences are.
-driller
- k9mouse
- Duke
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:19 pm
- Location: The Plane of Dark Nightmares…
i like that idea... if someone forced me to waste my time either by pp (it does take time to get stuff) or PVP (waiting on someone to rise or forced me lay dead for hours on end), I can waste their time, before i kill them for every reset for whole week in rl. I try to be very forgaving and kind to everyone, but if you want me to get very PO at you, just try to kiil or rob me (i hate both). I play on this server to get rid of rl rage by killing monsters, after a while i always claim down. Now image all that saved up rage is aimed at someone who pp or kill me with out asking first. In other words, i will change my purpose, instead beating on monsters, i will make your life a living hell... by pp'ing you every chance i get, kill you every chance and i will have my friends do the same and thier friend's friends and i will ask the whole server to do it also plus every new person that logs in.. i will ask them to kill/pp you also...i will not stop until you pay me back double what u have done or stolen..mark my words and mark them well.. it has been writen so let it be done (written in blood) //or you can aviold the whole mess and leave me be and i will help you.. i will not be raped be pp or unwilling killing and you do not want to be on black list either... you have been warndriller wrote:I was thinking of a voting option to take care of griefers.
This vote would be in the form of a warrant for that player's arrest. This would be in the Keep only.
The player would go to Rodran and file a complaint. This would cover theft, murder, assault etc.
The accusing player would have to pay a fee to have the warrant served (We are talking about Rodran here).
A player must have initiated a hostile action in the keep against another player to be arrested.
The next time the guards perceive this player he will asked to come quietly, if he doesn't, he will be clubbed into submission and put in jail awaiting trial. He will be tried before an NPC judge.
Using magical investigation (scripting ), the magistrate will deduce whether the accused is guilty or not. The guilty character will be sentenced to work in the salt mines. Here he will work in the mines until he has repaid his debt to society, then he will be set free.
This could literally take hours of real time depending on the severity of the crime. The more arrests, the longer the successive sentences are.
-driller
ps i don't care how many people i bug, you will pay
~=% Run from your nightmares, chase after your dreams, but in the end ... they both come to you in sleep %=~
- Capt Cliff
- Duke
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:22 pm
WOOWHO! I like all the planned changes ...
Oh, can some of the unused or under used areas be leased out and modified by an outside concern/contractor, mean like me! Say the area west of the ettins ... give me a shot at making it the Disneyland of BSK! Or would you prefer the Six Flags of BSK ... I see a old run down castle with a mage in the tower to buy and sell stuff with an get quests, but ya got to fight your way in. An there's a dungeon of many levels .... where you go to retreieve the quest items for the mage, eye of knut, a eldercap gland, skeleton knuckle ...
Oh, can some of the unused or under used areas be leased out and modified by an outside concern/contractor, mean like me! Say the area west of the ettins ... give me a shot at making it the Disneyland of BSK! Or would you prefer the Six Flags of BSK ... I see a old run down castle with a mage in the tower to buy and sell stuff with an get quests, but ya got to fight your way in. An there's a dungeon of many levels .... where you go to retreieve the quest items for the mage, eye of knut, a eldercap gland, skeleton knuckle ...
Now that's a cool use of scripting code! You won't see too many repeat offenders there... How will you adjust for people who have wars that carry over into the keep? Will there be some sort of script that will determine if the combatants were mutual or will all combatants be considered guilty if they are investigated? I could see some sort of battle where one person loses, and decides to go pay the fee in order to get revenge on the person who won the battle.driller wrote:I was thinking of a voting option to take care of griefers.
This vote would be in the form of a warrant for that player's arrest. This would be in the Keep only.
The player would go to Rodran and file a complaint. This would cover theft, murder, assault etc.
The accusing player would have to pay a fee to have the warrant served (We are talking about Rodran here).
A player must have initiated a hostile action in the keep against another player to be arrested.
The next time the guards perceive this player he will asked to come quietly, if he doesn't, he will be clubbed into submission and put in jail awaiting trial. He will be tried before an NPC judge.
Using magical investigation (scripting ), the magistrate will deduce whether the accused is guilty or not. The guilty character will be sentenced to work in the salt mines. Here he will work in the mines until he has repaid his debt to society, then he will be set free.
This could literally take hours of real time depending on the severity of the crime. The more arrests, the longer the successive sentences are.
-driller
I think it's GREAT, though!
- k9mouse
- Duke
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:19 pm
- Location: The Plane of Dark Nightmares…
we can make for pp peeps only .. it will check the class and if the class have the pp skill, they can use it on themviobane wrote:Now that's a cool use of scripting code! You won't see too many repeat offenders there... How will you adjust for people who have wars that carry over into the keep? Will there be some sort of script that will determine if the combatants were mutual or will all combatants be considered guilty if they are investigated? I could see some sort of battle where one person loses, and decides to go pay the fee in order to get revenge on the person who won the battle.driller wrote:I was thinking of a voting option to take care of griefers.
This vote would be in the form of a warrant for that player's arrest. This would be in the Keep only.
The player would go to Rodran and file a complaint. This would cover theft, murder, assault etc.
The accusing player would have to pay a fee to have the warrant served (We are talking about Rodran here).
A player must have initiated a hostile action in the keep against another player to be arrested.
The next time the guards perceive this player he will asked to come quietly, if he doesn't, he will be clubbed into submission and put in jail awaiting trial. He will be tried before an NPC judge.
Using magical investigation (scripting ), the magistrate will deduce whether the accused is guilty or not. The guilty character will be sentenced to work in the salt mines. Here he will work in the mines until he has repaid his debt to society, then he will be set free.
This could literally take hours of real time depending on the severity of the crime. The more arrests, the longer the successive sentences are.
-driller
I think it's GREAT, though!
~=% Run from your nightmares, chase after your dreams, but in the end ... they both come to you in sleep %=~
- Doofy Britches
- Duke
- Posts: 314
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:16 am
Very interesting indeed
Driller-
That's the most language and thought we've gotten from you in a long time!!! Some novel and ingenious ideas there as well! If you're goal is to liven the keep up.. you will accomplish it.. quite handily.
One observation.
Will all of the instances I've witnessed, under the current configuration- of people killing the kids.. or killing the guards... and generally making a nuisance of themselves in the keep. The amount of this activity will most certainly increase. I do not feel, having played on other servers where the "home city" was open- that things will calm down after a bit. I really don't believe they would.
There are some reasons for this- but an overriding concern here is that on the others servers I played on... death is much, much heavier a penalty than on BSK. Death actually really hurts you, in terms of xp, gold, and time out of the game. And still the griefing was severe. In Addition- grief killing and petty squabbles (moreso than reasonable RP based disputes) were the cause of nearly all the fights, DM involvement, and lambasting on the forums.
On BSK..we sometimes see the "do what ever you want to do the last 5 mintues before reset" type of griefing. Or just griefing in general cause the penalty is small. What will happen now? Pages and Pages of forum rants about "I was unfairly this", and "you were unfairly that".
Those other servers always have ban issues.. etc. Our server by comparison and very few incidents, and very few banned players.
BSK is definitely "tame" in respect to those... and those were RP servers. But those servers put a bad taste in my mouth.. and its what instantly made BSK the place I always came to play on.. and why I've brought many of my friends to the server for their first NwN experience. Because it was safe to do so without them being griefed.
We DO want new players to come to server and be able to get off to a good start don't we?
Opening up the PP rule for forge stones and other small items. Hmmm...
I see the possibility here in having some excellent stuff come out of that..certainly.. character builders will now have to consider accounting for spot skills and other things that players don't now need to build for.... and that's cool and good... but at what cost?
You and other DM's have made posts in the past about what the time and frustration level was like on your part when BSK was more open. Same with PvP in the keep in the past.. ..which is why you said you changed it to its current state.
My largest concern.. would be the brand new player to BSK.. one who's never been there before.. and right off the boat.. they get waylaid by spammed spells, pick pocketed before they can get to their first quest giver... etc. That would KILL any enthusiasm for new players to stay and see more.
How many true, consistent players do we have on the server on a nightly basis... ones that care enough to sign up to the forum and post their ideas/thoughts/help/suggestions? How many of those on any given night versus the lot of other "ilk" out in the NwN community? Not enough to police all situations.
Like it or not.. we are human.. and we don't like pickpockets in real life.. and we don't like them in our fantasy games either. We don't like it done to us.. but yet.. we want to get away with it if we do it to others.
I rather respect and enjoy the way you have it set now in BSK. People already steal forgies....so we already have issues....without consideration to create greater ones. I never carry mine with me as a result. Please tell me that actually being at the forge with your stones would be a PP free zone...
I shiver to think how many would level Rouge/SD's to camp the forge and have a field day.
Question-
Is a great NwN nights server supposed to be like taking a ride on bumper cars.. where the underlying premise for the whole is to smash into as many others as possible?.......Or is it to create a fun filled rollercoaster that has elements here and there for all to enjoy.. danger certainly- but where the premise is that all can enjoy it without being compelled to pummel and steal from each other?
That's the most language and thought we've gotten from you in a long time!!! Some novel and ingenious ideas there as well! If you're goal is to liven the keep up.. you will accomplish it.. quite handily.
One observation.
Will all of the instances I've witnessed, under the current configuration- of people killing the kids.. or killing the guards... and generally making a nuisance of themselves in the keep. The amount of this activity will most certainly increase. I do not feel, having played on other servers where the "home city" was open- that things will calm down after a bit. I really don't believe they would.
There are some reasons for this- but an overriding concern here is that on the others servers I played on... death is much, much heavier a penalty than on BSK. Death actually really hurts you, in terms of xp, gold, and time out of the game. And still the griefing was severe. In Addition- grief killing and petty squabbles (moreso than reasonable RP based disputes) were the cause of nearly all the fights, DM involvement, and lambasting on the forums.
On BSK..we sometimes see the "do what ever you want to do the last 5 mintues before reset" type of griefing. Or just griefing in general cause the penalty is small. What will happen now? Pages and Pages of forum rants about "I was unfairly this", and "you were unfairly that".
Those other servers always have ban issues.. etc. Our server by comparison and very few incidents, and very few banned players.
BSK is definitely "tame" in respect to those... and those were RP servers. But those servers put a bad taste in my mouth.. and its what instantly made BSK the place I always came to play on.. and why I've brought many of my friends to the server for their first NwN experience. Because it was safe to do so without them being griefed.
We DO want new players to come to server and be able to get off to a good start don't we?
Opening up the PP rule for forge stones and other small items. Hmmm...
I see the possibility here in having some excellent stuff come out of that..certainly.. character builders will now have to consider accounting for spot skills and other things that players don't now need to build for.... and that's cool and good... but at what cost?
You and other DM's have made posts in the past about what the time and frustration level was like on your part when BSK was more open. Same with PvP in the keep in the past.. ..which is why you said you changed it to its current state.
My largest concern.. would be the brand new player to BSK.. one who's never been there before.. and right off the boat.. they get waylaid by spammed spells, pick pocketed before they can get to their first quest giver... etc. That would KILL any enthusiasm for new players to stay and see more.
How many true, consistent players do we have on the server on a nightly basis... ones that care enough to sign up to the forum and post their ideas/thoughts/help/suggestions? How many of those on any given night versus the lot of other "ilk" out in the NwN community? Not enough to police all situations.
Like it or not.. we are human.. and we don't like pickpockets in real life.. and we don't like them in our fantasy games either. We don't like it done to us.. but yet.. we want to get away with it if we do it to others.
I rather respect and enjoy the way you have it set now in BSK. People already steal forgies....so we already have issues....without consideration to create greater ones. I never carry mine with me as a result. Please tell me that actually being at the forge with your stones would be a PP free zone...
I shiver to think how many would level Rouge/SD's to camp the forge and have a field day.
Question-
Is a great NwN nights server supposed to be like taking a ride on bumper cars.. where the underlying premise for the whole is to smash into as many others as possible?.......Or is it to create a fun filled rollercoaster that has elements here and there for all to enjoy.. danger certainly- but where the premise is that all can enjoy it without being compelled to pummel and steal from each other?
Last edited by Doofy Britches on Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
A Master role player is one who is willing and able to bend their character concept to make the game more enjoyable for all involved. To assist the DM in making the game fun, and to not sow discord. - Gary Gygax
- k9mouse
- Duke
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:19 pm
- Location: The Plane of Dark Nightmares…
Re: Very interesting indeed
Amen sir Doofy Britches
~=% Run from your nightmares, chase after your dreams, but in the end ... they both come to you in sleep %=~