Help with character selection, please?

[Cornflower]

Greetings. I have been absent for a while, but I'm now planning on coming back. This might seem weird or even stupid, but in order to get my motivation back, I'm thinking of deleting all my characters and start over. I might keep one or two, but my question to you all is this: With all the recent and not so recent changes, what characters do I keep/start up? Let's pretend I have deleted all of them, how would a stable of max 8 characters look like? Here's what I'm thinking, but feel free to suggest otherwise.

Note that I'm not going for the optimum power-build, I want diversity, survivability in quest areas, fun to play, useful in RP and somewhat useful if I find a party to follow into the high-level boss areas. (Since I basically suck at game mechanics, I'm not going for the kind of uber-build with uber-gear that thinks Blood Cult and Aildrek are too easy.)

Forger
Fighter, offense rather than defence
Mage
AA
Cleric
???
???
???

[Yunim]

Forger - There are mainly two popular builds for crafters, Bard26/Figh4/RDD10 and Wiz21/Bard19. If you have two crafting hammers then any DC wizard can become a crafter, but if you don't want to rely on any items then those are your two main choices. Just make sure that you remember to sing every time that you forge, I know somebody who has messed up multiple times by forgetting to sing first.

Fighter - My personal favourite DPS build is a Figh12/WM25/Rog3. Any monster or area that I can solo with a cleric or mage can also be soloed with this build. It can even beat a lone Umgah Royal Guard, although two at a time is too much for this build when solo. While this used to be useful on all high end PvM runs, Driller has made some changes to boss runs so that there is no single DPS build that is best for every boss. The closest that you will get is a Figh12/WM25/Pal3 which is useful on almost all of the boss runs. Due to a lack of UMD it isn't as capable of soloing as a Figh12/WM25/Rog3, but in a party it is usually the better choice.

Mage - There are so many choices for a PvM mage that I can't recommend a specific build. In general, aim for 36-38 caster levels, 38 INT/CHA, and ESF: Necromancy. Wizards will be able to fit in a secondary focus, Sorcerers are probably best off sticking to Necromancy. Some people like to make AC Sorcs with Auto Still 3, but AC doesn't really matter for PvM, HP does. A gnome with 18CON and 18INT/CHA is a good starting point for a PvM mage. If you are new to mages I recommend making a generalist Wizard first, to test out what spells are useful and where. If you are experienced with using mages on BSK then go for an Illusionist Wizard or Sorcerer.
This applies to all PvM casters, but especially mages, make sure that you pick up Mummy Dust. Some monsters are magic immune and some monsters require a distraction, the mummy is the best summon for dealing with them. It can also do most of the work while levelling, so try to get the feat early on if you can. Dragon Knight is nice but it only lasts for two minutes so only choose this feat if you already have a mummy.

AA - There are plenty of choices for AA's too, although they usually have a hard time soloing and are better off levelling in parties. There are two types of AA, divine AA and non-divine AA. A Sorc2/Pal8/AA30 is a minmaxed divine AA built for high end PvM runs, but it assumes that you will have a party to shield you. Bard10/BG3/AA27 is another divine AA, but this one picks up Devastating Critical at the cost of Divine Might damage. For non-divine AA's, I recommend either a Monk9/Wiz2/AA29 or a Bard9/SD2/AA29 since both have useful defence mechanisms. If you want to use your archer in high end PvM runs then a divine AA is best, if you want to solo then a non-divine AA is best.

Cleric - My two favourite PvM clerics are easily Cler38/Monk1/Wiz1 and Cler38/Monk1/Rog1. They can solo almost everything that is soloable and can be used as healers on high end runs. There are plenty of alternative cleric builds too, in general my advice for mages applies to caster clerics too. You want 36-38 caster levels, 38 WIS, ESF: Evocation, and a Mummy Dust summon. Prioritise HP over AC, a Gnome with 18CON and 18WIS is a good starting point.

If these are going to be your only builds then I would recommend either making an arcane and divine crafter or editing one of the above builds to have crafting feats. For example, the Wiz21/Bard19 has all three crafting feats and so can make any arcane wand or scroll (assuming that you are a generalist Wizard). A DC Wizard can easily fit in crafting feats too, so you could choose a Bard/Figh/RDD crafter and a generalist Wizard with crafting feats for a mage. The Cler38/Monk1/Wiz1 gets Scribe Scroll for free, so adding Craft Wand (and Brew Potion if you want to) will make it a useful divine crafter.

[itchyfunk]

A couple of comments to add to Yunim's:
1) The Bard/AA/BG build with dev crit: The way dev crit works on this server means it is nearly useless for end-game bosses. The 35% DC bonus is calculated on the _damage delivered_, which means _after_ DI/DR reductions. This means you effectively pay the DI/DR penalty 2x on the DC bonus. The only saving grace is it is a pure magical damage add. That said, knowing the server as I do now, I would not make that trade of Divine Might damage for DC damage. While popping ~270's on a mob with a bow is nice to see, it's not worth it unless you're staying in mid-tier areas.

Also, Called Shot loses it's utility after mid-tier areas since most of the high-end mobs can resist it. (And it's worthless PvP on this server, if that's your thing). But it can help leveling as it lets you pin down your opponent if you're solo. Still I think it's a wasted feat.

On any Bard/AA after you get a +20AB bow, your bard song will not give you any AB boost (nor will War Cry), and because of the DI/DR end-game you can basically ignore the bludge and slash damage bonuses. That said, Cursed song is worthwhile end game. And I miss my bard spells when I'm on my Pali/Sorc/AA.

I don't have time to post it now, but I'm actually planning a rebuild of my Bard/AA/BG that places the focus back on DM vs Physical Damage and gives a high cursed-song. It will have a slightly lower divine and AB than Yunim's Pali/Sorc/AA (also fun to play) but has the fun and flexibility of a high-level Bard that might make it a nice balance for a party DPS and boss nerfing.

If you're trying to solo play your AA and you don't have a Mnk or SD variant, you need to get used to Run-and-Gun. Your first flurry will fire near instantly and you can start running again so you don't take damage. This means that, unless you have a meat shield (aka your friends in party) rapid shot is not going to see much use.

2) Don't neglect your sneak-damage dealers. I'll post my Smurf build later too (mnk/sd/rog). I don't even have close to peak gear on Smurf ... not even dex is maxed... frankly, he's mostly naked (style points?)... and he solo's Tar Valen without a hitch. Your problem with those guys will be Undead because of the sneak immunity and TS... more so the sneak immunity because your speed will save you in almost all cases.

[Cornflower]

Thank you!

Note, I'm not looking for a specific build (I have some very good builds that doesn't work due to me sucking), more of which types should I have. Like a list of "You need one barbarian, one paladin, one cleric and one something or other".

[Cornflower]

Oh, by the way, I once had a monk that was totally boring, since I couldn't hit anything, but nothing could hit me either, so every fight took forever. I actually had more fun with my Scythe-master who hit for a gazillion points but had AC 17 naked.

So, again, fun mix of characters, rather than a bunch of powerbuilds.

[Yunim]

Thank you!

Note, I'm not looking for a specific build (I have some very good builds that doesn't work due to me sucking), more of which types should I have. Like a list of "You need one barbarian, one paladin, one cleric and one something or other".

To be useful in any high end PvM party you need 1 STR melee DPS build (preferably with divine might), 1 ranged DPS build (preferably with divine might), 1 cleric build, and 1 tank build. You don't need all or even any of them in order to be useful on a boss run, but being able to fill any of those four roles is useful.

If you're just looking for general build ideas, not specifically for high end PvM, then the only build type I think you're missing from your current list is some kind of sneaker. Melee, ranged, sneaker, cleric, and mage cover the majority of character playstyles, although you might want multiple characters from the same category.

[Cornflower]

Thank you!

Note, I'm not looking for a specific build (I have some very good builds that doesn't work due to me sucking), more of which types should I have. Like a list of "You need one barbarian, one paladin, one cleric and one something or other".

To be useful in any high end PvM party you need 1 STR melee DPS build (preferably with divine might), 1 ranged DPS build (preferably with divine might), 1 cleric build, and 1 tank build. You don't need all or even any of them in order to be useful on a boss run, but being able to fill any of those four roles is useful.

If you're just looking for general build ideas, not specifically for high end PvM, then the only build type I think you're missing from your current list is some kind of sneaker. Melee, ranged, sneaker, cleric, and mage cover the majority of character playstyles, although you might want multiple characters from the same category.

That's good advice. Thank you!