Server future enquiry.

[Garrett]

You can do Blood Cult quest with one Arcane Archer and one wizard only. Get a high AB AA to shoot arrows while wizard is casting crushing hands on them mobs. Problem solved.

[Zen-Ben]

While im still new on the server, i might oversee something, but while the levelprequisite of a weapon is raised by the enchantments, doesn't that mean, that chars rely on the+20 on a weapon end up having less damage on the weapon? So if the bard/priest with its own +12ab buff can get 4d10 more dmg on its weapon, that should balance it with fighters, nah?
May be the lvlpreq of a +20 weapon is just to low?

[Mask-inc]

-some monsters got +xx soak xx damage.
-epic warding need +20 to get over it also.
-doesn't mean your idea is not good, why sometime clerc will just get a +10 weapon and use self buff like you suggested.
getting over +10 is also a good idea
-also, yes, if the ab on the weapon is lower, you can put more stuff on the weapon.
-most players with a lev40 character they use will forge or have someone else forge a lev40 weapon or as close as can be without getting over 40



Mask

[Cornflower]

You can do Blood Cult quest with one Arcane Archer and one wizard only. Get a high AB AA to shoot arrows while wizard is casting crushing hands on them mobs. Problem solved.

Well... As stated elsewhere, my frustration is that you can't solo all the quests. In my opinion, quests are for soloing. You can do quests when you don't have anyone to play with. High-level hunting grounds are for parties. Hence, I would very much like to be able to solo Blood Cult, since I most often play on times where at most 4-5 players are online.

Again, that is based on my thought that quests should be solo-able. But that's just my opinion.

[driller]

So is this what you guys want?

Taking Yunim's numbers from earlier in the thread into consideration.

Rebalance:
Max AC per item +6.(Stays the same)
Cap max AC at 75 for mobs and PCs.
Max AB per item +10(with the d20() roll and AC Cap, most should be able to consistently hit)

The AB vs AC should intersect for the most part

Remember, I am taking both PVP and PVE into consideration.

It's up to you guys. If you have a better suggestion or if I am missing something, speak up.

[Sway]

I think it's set up fine as is, theres ways to solo all the quests. Endgame bosses are party oriented as it should be. If your build isn't able to solo the quests.. then maybe you should go back to the drawing board or reconfigure the way you go about the quest because you could do it, it just wouldn't be as fast as you'd like. Also imo, there's certain quests that you should need a team for. Things would be not challenging if you would be able to solo everything with ease. It brings people players together, which really adds value to the server. From the events i've been throwing, and the numerous parties I'm doing bosses with, things are more fun with a party. And it makes it more fun when trying to figure out how to go about a boss/mobs, rather than changing something for self benefit. I actually message driller a lot about changing something being TOO easy.

PC's should adjust to the way the server mobs are, not the other way around. Any updates should be just that UPdates. Not downgrades.

So is this what you guys want?

Taking Yunim's numbers from earlier in the thread into consideration.

Rebalance:
Max AC per item +6.(Stays the same)
Cap max AC at 75 for mobs and PCs.
Max AB per item +10(with the d20() roll and AC Cap, most should be able to consistently hit)

The AB vs AC should intersect for the most part

Remember, I am taking both PVP and PVE into consideration.

It's up to you guys. If you have a better suggestion or if I am missing something, speak up.

[Sway]

I don't have a problem with +20AB weapons, it just means that you need to change your building approach.

Exactly this.

[Yunim]

Well... As stated elsewhere, my frustration is that you can't solo all the quests. In my opinion, quests are for soloing. You can do quests when you don't have anyone to play with. High-level hunting grounds are for parties. Hence, I would very much like to be able to solo Blood Cult, since I most often play on times where at most 4-5 players are online.

Again, that is based on my thought that quests should be solo-able. But that's just my opinion.

The only quests that are not easily soloable are Bloodcult, Lost City (which is designed for parties but can be soloed anyway), and Shalnath (which requires a party by design). I've done Bloodcult solo with mages, clerics, and WMs. I've done Lost City solo with mages and WMs, and with enough patience I could also solo it with a cleric.

My PvM toons are fully equipped so I do have an advantage over most players, but even with basic forged gear both Bloodcult and Lost City are soloable with a Figh12/WM25/Rog3 or mage with arcane banners. Not every build can solo those areas, but if an offensive PvM build can't solo Bloodcult then you either need to rethink your build or your tactics.
To give you a hint, there are plenty of ways to deal with an NPC that doesn't have True Seeing.

So is this what you guys want?

Taking Yunim's numbers from earlier in the thread into consideration.

Rebalance:
Max AC per item +6.(Stays the same)
Cap max AC at 75 for mobs and PCs.
Max AB per item +10(with the d20() roll and AC Cap, most should be able to consistently hit)

The AB vs AC should intersect for the most part

Remember, I am taking both PVP and PVE into consideration.

It's up to you guys. If you have a better suggestion or if I am missing something, speak up.

Onto the AB/AC issue, I really prefer the status quo of +20 AB weapons over any changes. This will be focused on PvP since mobs can always be adjusted for PvM.

First of all, AB and AC are not everything in PvP. I can kill a 90 AC build with a 65 AB build if I use the right 65 AB build.

The four main classes affected by +20 weapons are Clerics, Paladins, Bards, and Rangers.
I'll ignore CoTs, PDKs, and True Strikers because most of those builds are terrible, especially on BSK where they can't use Knockdown or Called Shot to disable targets.
Clerics are the most affected class since they miss out on 10-20 AB depending on Divine Power. Paladins miss out on 8 AB, Bards miss out on 4 AB, Rangers miss out on 1 AB. Every other class is limited to party buffs (+5 AB max) or buffing from wands/scrolls if they want to increase their AB beyond what is available on weapons.

I admit that I'm biased about this because I dislike PWs where solo melee clerics have similar AB to solo WMs in addition to offensive spells and healing. However that is one of the main reasons I'm against the changes, it would be a significant buff to a class that really doesn't need it.

The other classes also have other benefits besides the AB buffs.
Paladins have Divine Might/Shield, improved saves, and Holy Avenger weapons.
Bards have vanilla Bard/Curse song, which is ridiculously powerful if used properly, in addition to their spells and UMD. There is no better debuffer than a Bard.
Rangers have Bane of Enemies! One of the most overlooked feats imo, so many people go Ranger just for the dual wielding when it can do so much more. They also get dual wielding, great stealth skills, great detect skills, and a cute pet.
A +20 environment means that you need to change your priorities when building, but it doesn't mean that things are unbalanced or need changing.

As for the AC cap, even if the cap was 80 and didn't include Expertise/IExp this would still affect Divine Shield users, PMs, RDDs, certain Monk builds, and certain Shifter builds. If it did include Expertise/IExp then even more builds would be affected.

I would rather have +20 weapons and uncapped AC than +10 weapons and capped AC.

[itchyfunk]

Bloodcult and Lost city are both able to be soloed; albeit I don't think they could be done with a hey-diddle-diddle-up-the-middle tanky build without spending a ton on resources to survive. It takes strategy and patience for both. Mostly because the DR of a Tank isn't sufficient given the damage BSK boss mobs dish out. Good ole Rope-a-dope isn't going to cut it in those situations.


Back to the topic:
I like you're proposed numbers driller; predominantly because I like lower magic scenarios since I feel it allows the classes to differentiate themselves more. I'm not all hung up as much on is it PvM or PvP. For me its more about, is there a "character" behind the toon I'm playing.

I don't like to RP (too much work) but I do like to play a toon with personality. That sort of goes away when the classes all get washed out because the gear allows you to ignore trade-space decisions in your build or worse negates one of the benefits of your class. It leaves me feeling like there should just be Fight/Rog/Mag/Cleric and eff the rest of it. Maybe it's the permanency of the +20AB I find annoying...like it's a once and done and not some resource consumable or even that the GMW spells (apart from only working on melee weapons) stop at +5 making you think "what's so great about that?! I've got a +20AB here. Phht wimpy epic caster class!"

I agree with Sway about the fun that parties add to the game experience and I feel like the fact that there are just some areas were you don't wander around alone at night in BSK makes the world more immersive.

I also like the fact that you've structured a world where the game actually starts at level-40 as you try to tune your gear for your characters.

[Yunim]

Yesterday I went to Bloodcult with my WM to check how the AC nerf had affected the difficulty. Using a plain Figh12/WM25/Rog3 I killed Tar with both a +5 rapier and an unenchanted rapier. It took less than 30 seconds to kill Tar with a +5 rapier and less than 3 minutes to kill him with a +0 rapier, even with the 25 DR that he has against +0 weapons.

If a fully forged offensive PvM build still struggles with Tar after the AC nerf, I suggest rethinking your tactics.