PvP Balance // Better Shop!

[Sway]

As a lot of us know, in the recent PvP Tournament, certain builds trump pretty much all other builds. As driller has said before AC has the upper hand in most situations. This thread is for suggestions to even out the battle for other builds to make it more fun. I'd hate to see everyone have to make similar toons (RDD or PMs) to win fights.

My suggestion would be:

I PERSONALLY like sneakers. They're a lot of fun to use, and I've love HIPS builds for a while. Against the known RDD build and the PM builds, it's very useless. I would personally like to see Epic Traps implemented into the game, if possible. With items that boost my MS & Hide to near max, most of these builds wouldn't be able to detect me, hince giving me and advantage to lay traps that could actually do significant damage to them. Right now as it stands, after test fighting a couple of buds, there's really no point in having a sneaker (for pvp purposes).

I was thinking that the epic traps can be rare drops dropped by end-game bosses, sold in one of the shops for millions of gold pieces or something that makes it difficult to achieve them.

This is jut ONE of many ways to even out the PvP community. Give me your ideas. Maybe there's a build you personally like and would like t to be able to take down RDDs & PMs.


SIDE NOTE for driller// I would also like to see a better shop implemented with better items. Right now as it stands, Gold is useless for most of us. Between my only two toons, i have about 40m gold and it grows everyday i'm on. Whenever I do spend money, i easily get it back plus more when I do bosses and umgah. If there was a shop like Akon's or Blackrose, that has items worth 20m+, it would make gold collecting more important for players. Maybe make it a secret shop like akon's, where you have to do something special to get to it. IDK. But yeah anyways, if anyone agrees with me on this, let us know down below.

Sway

Ingame: (Swåy or Swai)

[Yunim]

I'm in support of epic traps as long as they can't be used to grief players. I've never used traps on the server so I'm not sure if they affect every player or just hostile players, but if they affect every player that could be a problem.

I don't support adding any further nerfs to classes, they seem fairly balanced to me. I have two PvP sneakers planned and both of them will be able to reliably damage Pale Masters. PMs definitely have an advantage against sneakers and critters, but they also have some serious weaknesses too. As for RDDs, they get some nice stats on paper but AB and AC aren't everything in PvP. If your sneaker is struggling against an RDD then either it is built specifically to counter sneakers or your build/gear needs improvement.

[The Flying Rodent]

As a lot of us know, in the recent PvP Tournament, certain builds trump pretty much all other builds. As driller has said before AC has the upper hand in most situations. This thread is for suggestions to even out the battle for other builds to make it more fun. I'd hate to see everyone have to make similar toons (RDD or PMs) to win fights.

NWN PvP on any server pretty much always has certain builds that trump other builds, and a lot of the time they have RDD or PM in their mix due to the free attack/defense stats that these classes provide. I'd say Rangers additionally are strong PvP'ers here due to the high-end AB weapons that are available, which makes up for their lack of attack buffs. And Sorcerers are probably still king of the pile, even moreso now that a lot of the magical defense items have received nerfs.

I PERSONALLY like sneakers. They're a lot of fun to use, and I've love HIPS builds for a while. Against the known RDD build and the PM builds, it's very useless. I would personally like to see Epic Traps implemented into the game, if possible. With items that boost my MS & Hide to near max, most of these builds wouldn't be able to detect me, hince giving me and advantage to lay traps that could actually do significant damage to them. Right now as it stands, after test fighting a couple of buds, there's really no point in having a sneaker (for pvp purposes).

I disagre however that all Stealth builds are weak in PvP. The way that True Seeing is set up not as an end-all detection spell but as a Spot spell, combined with Stealth generally being easier to conduct than Detection [Dexterity Based vs Wisdom based, +4 Ranger/Halfling bonuses vs only +2 Elf bonuses, Keen Senses is Elf only, etc.], would IMO sway things [pardon the pun] in the favour of Stealth characters. I'm actually surprised that we didn't see many during the PvP tournament.

As with melee builds though, not all Stealth builds would be optimised for PvP. Assassins are generally pretty useless at it if Freedom items are available, as they cannot make use of their Death Attack paralysis, in addition to usually having most of their damage loaded into their Sneak Attacks [unlike say Fighter/Bard/Ranger sneakers which can deal additional base physical damage, or Blackguard/Cleric/Paladin sneakers that can deal additional Divine/Magic damage]. They also tend not to take Improved Sneak Attack feats like perhaps a high level Rogue would.

That said: I do like the idea of Epic Traps, either from a shop, loot, or contained within some area such that high level Rogues can recover them for their own use. Deadly traps are currently craftable, and some can be purchased as well I'm pretty sure, so it'd be nice to add some Epic ones to the mix.

To prevent people from hoarding them for griefing purposes however, as Yunim said, it would probably be best to have Epic Traps only scarcely available. This could be done by only having a certain amount purchasable per reset from a shop, only a few contained within an area to recover, or just by having them as rare loot drops.

[driller]

Forged Paladin and Blackguard weapons have a 1d6 chance of casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction on hit.

And Sorcerers are probably still king of the pile, even moreso now that a lot of the magical defense items have received nerfs.

[Sway]

I'm in support of epic traps as long as they can't be used to grief players. I've never used traps on the server so I'm not sure if they affect every player or just hostile players, but if they affect every player that could be a problem.

I agree with this. If they were to be implemented, they should be scarce like TFR stated.

After reading I can agree that sneakers are not COMPLETELY useless. But if we're being honest, the RDD build that's currently on forums is the Meta melee PvP build. Giving us items that can change this up will not only make it more competitive, but give people a new drawing board for tounaments. Now I am taking into consideration that this isn't a PvP server. But i would like a chance at taking home the crown if there is another event like the tournament, without having to build one of the two Metas.

Forged Paladin and Blackguard weapons have a 1d6 chance of casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction on hit.

Very true, forgot all about that. Just gave me a new idea. Thanks.

- I would also like to hear your opinion on a shop for wealthy (gold) players, cause as it stands, we have no need for coins really.

Sway

[The Flying Rodent]

Forged Paladin and Blackguard weapons have a 1d6 chance of casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction on hit.

And Sorcerers are probably still king of the pile, even moreso now that a lot of the magical defense items have received nerfs.

Interesting. I was aware of the Paladin version, but I thought the Blackguard version was only Lesser Dispelling. Guessing that this has been changed now.

Is the Mordenkainen Disjunction on hit dependant on Paladin/Blackguard levels? Or does one receive the full benefit from only taking 1 level?

After reading I can agree that sneakers are not COMPLETELY useless. But if we're being honest, the RDD build that's currently on forums is the Meta melee PvP build. Giving us items that can change this up will not only make it more competitive, but give people a new drawing board for tounaments. Now I am taking into consideration that this isn't a PvP server. But I would like a chance at taking home the crown if there is another event like the tournament, without having to build one of the two Metas.

I am assuming that you mean This Build Here, which does seem to be quite a strong PvP Build here [pretty much by accident, I’m used to playing it in +5 and +6 environments lol].

I disagree that it’s ‘The Meta Build’ though, because it does have weaknesses that can be exploited if you know what they are. I’d say that there moreso are ‘Meta Classes’ for PvP.

Specifically: Ranger, Bard, RDD and Palemaster for their sets of feats/abilities that mesh well with high AB Weapons, Shadowdancer for HIPS, Paladin and Blackguard for their forged Dispel Weapons (assuming that they are of the same strength), Sorcerer for Caster PvP, and Cleric for group PvP as a healer (which you don’t see that often but it certainly works well). Thankfully Cleric isn’t as crazy-busted as it normally is in PvP what with +20 weapons available, but Heal and Harm are still very strong. And I suppose Monk as well for the movement speed and Spell Resistance.

Aside from maybe Ranger, the above list are pretty standard ‘Meta PvP classes’ for other servers as well, so I don’t see too much of an issue with current class/item levels. This probably isn’t even a complete list; there may be other builds/ classes not thought of yet that would also do well in PvP. Perhaps even well enough to win a tournament!

As for a higher level shop, I’m guessing that is up to driller . The current setup seems to be ‘Crafted Equipment + Rare Loot Drops = The Best Gear’, and the Blackrose shop recently had its’ items nerfed to push things further in this direction.

[Robbeh]

Forged Paladin and Blackguard weapons have a 1d6 chance of casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction on hit.

Is this regardless of level? I’ve a paladin hammer with this onHit unique power attribute, and I’ve yet to see it actually cast disjunction I do seem to get 1d6 Devine vs evil tho