Brainstorming the Crafting System

[Mask-inc]

No, not just the Izu's Hammer, you can find +craft items from the ancient gears and from similar sources.


Mask

[driller]

What I am thinking of is not counting skills bonuses from items above 70. That way you can still use items to help forge with, but you need a crafter of the highest abilities to get the best gear.

[Yunim]

As somebody with a wizard crafter, I definitely prefer the status quo over nerfing how items affect high end crafting.
Removing items over 70 will mean that only bards will be able to hit the magic 80/81 (I've seen conflicting comments on what the actual maximum needed is).
Even a Wizard/RDD can only reach 77 crafting, and that is the absolute maximum without gear or bard song.

What I am thinking of is not counting skills bonuses from items above 70. That way you can still use items to help forge with, but you need a crafter of the highest abilities to get the best gear.

[The Flying Rodent]

What I am thinking of is not counting skills bonuses from items above 70. That way you can still use items to help forge with, but you need a crafter of the highest abilities to get the best gear.

Interesting.

So again: Would the proposed changes be able to differentiate between skill bonuses from items, and skill bonuses from Bard Song? Because if they can’t, then basically top tier crafting would suddenly become unavailable for everyone, as ‘all’ crafters require skill boosting from either song or equipment at present to get them to 80 (or 81, whatever the value is, currently my Bard can reach 84 if pushed).

[driller]

I am not including ability bonuses. In any case nothing is going to be changed right and maybe never.

What I am thinking of is not counting skills bonuses from items above 70. That way you can still use items to help forge with, but you need a crafter of the highest abilities to get the best gear.

Interesting.

So again: Would the proposed changes be able to differentiate between skill bonuses from items, and skill bonuses from Bard Song? Because if they can’t, then basically top tier crafting would suddenly become unavailable for everyone, as ‘all’ crafters require skill boosting from either song or equipment at present to get them to 80 (or 81, whatever the value is, currently my Bard can reach 84 if pushed).

[The Flying Rodent]

I am not including ability bonuses.

What I am thinking of is not counting skills bonuses from items above 70. That way you can still use items to help forge with, but you need a crafter of the highest abilities to get the best gear.

Interesting.

So again: Would the proposed changes be able to differentiate between skill bonuses from items, and skill bonuses from Bard Song? Because if they can’t, then basically top tier crafting would suddenly become unavailable for everyone, as ‘all’ crafters require skill boosting from either song or equipment at present to get them to 80 (or 81, whatever the value is, currently my Bard can reach 84 if pushed).

Right.

Which means that if the threshold were kept the same as it is now, and ‘all skill bonuses’ from Bard Song were removed, then absolutely no one would be able attain max crafting of 80 anymore, as the current max that can be reached with Intelligence alone is 77 on a Wiz/Rdd.

And in the event that the threshold ‘is’ lowered to accomodate for this, then just about everybody would still have to ditch their current Bard-oriented crafter characters, in favour of ONLY max INT Wizards.

I hope that I am communicating this conundrum properly lol.

[driller]

That's not whats going to happen. I will probably just end up capping the max bonus bard song can give to crafting skills* while still allowing perform to be maxed via items(+30 Epic Gloves of the Minstrel) so you can get the most out of your Bard song for other situations.

I am just looking at + to crafting skills items at this point for the nerf. Looking not doing, just collecting statistics.

*(which will still be able to get to 80)

[The Flying Rodent]

That's not whats going to happen. I will probably just end up capping the max bonus bard song can give to crafting skills* while still allowing perform to be maxed via items(+30 Epic Gloves of the Minstrel) so you can get the most out of your Bard song for other situations.

I am just looking at + to crafting skills items at this point for the nerf. Looking not doing, just collecting statistics.

*(which will still be able to get to 80)

Ah ok, that sounds like it’ll work well. If the cap on skill bonuses for crafting were kept at something like +12, then a 22 Base Int crafter with feats and intelligence fully buffed would still be able to attain the threshold (43 + 13 (feats)+ 12(Int) + 12(bonuses) = 80 ) .

And then high level Bards could get their song back to boot. Sounds good! Will wait patiently for you to collect data then. =)

[Kane0]

Yeah that sounds good, if people are happy with INT being the only stat, either cap item + bard song bonus at +12 or just remove bonuses altogether and lower the threshold to 68.

[Cometchaser]

I'm really not sure if I like the idea of changing up the crafting system. I just leveled up a Wizard specifically for crafting, and even with skill focus and epic skill focus in both craft armor and weapon, and as much INT as I can possibly get, I still do not reach 80 without items. If we nerf the items, then it feels like bards will be literally the only class capable of hitting max craft. Even nerfing the bard song feels unnecessary, you basically have to completely dedicate your character to being a crafter, taking multiple skill focus feats, including skill focus: Perform if you go the Bard route.

The barrier to entry is already high, I don't see what raising the bar even further accomplishes other than invalidating people's already existing crafter builds. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say.

[Cornflower]

I'm really not sure if I like the idea of changing up the crafting system.

...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say.

I couldn't agree more. Thank you!

[Omegon]

In my limited time here already, it feels like a challenge already being presented with a mysterious crafting system but excited about levelling up a crafter.

I've done my research, asked around in character and swiftly had a go at it too.

Personally the bar is set high as it is and imho I believe that the crafting system is challenging enough.

Hope this helps.

[driller]

The crafting system isn't changing. The only related aspect that will change is that Bard's Song will be capped at +10 to crafting skills. The other skills will not be affected. This is due to me adding Epic gloves that give +30 to perform.

[The Flying Rodent]

Sooo the +30 Perform Gloves now become +6 Perform Gloves once they have been equipped. I'm guessing that this is due to the 'bard crafter skill decrease' being easily circumvented by a Lesser Restoration potion meant that the +30 Gloves were again in a position to make certain crafters 'cheese the system'. Meanwhile, Dove's Harps remain unchanged by the script [guessing the item changing script doesn't work unless you equip an item, perhaps it could be changed to alter an item when it is used?].

Despite the fact that this new script converts all Epic Perform Gloves to crappy +6 ones, the '+30 Gloves in disguise' in their specific shop for 100k+. And the 'time to stock up on restore potions eh bard crafters' skill decrease still remains, also despite the Perform Gloves nerf.

Perhaps the Skill decrease could be removed and the old +6 Elite Perform Gloves reinstated in the shop?

[driller]

This is just an oversight.

Sooo the +30 Perform Gloves now become +6 Perform Gloves once they have been equipped. I'm guessing that this is due to the 'bard crafter skill decrease' being easily circumvented by a Lesser Restoration potion meant that the +30 Gloves were again in a position to make certain crafters 'cheese the system'. Meanwhile, Dove's Harps remain unchanged by the script [guessing the item changing script doesn't work unless you equip an item, perhaps it could be changed to alter an item when it is used?].

Despite the fact that this new script converts all Epic Perform Gloves to crappy +6 ones, the '+30 Gloves in disguise' in their specific shop for 100k+. And the 'time to stock up on restore potions eh bard crafters' skill decrease still remains, also despite the Perform Gloves nerf.

Perhaps the Skill decrease could be removed and the old +6 Elite Perform Gloves reinstated in the shop?