Thought on balancing in general

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Cornflower
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Thought on balancing in general

Post by Cornflower »

Just a thought, mind. Not a complaint.

I've been running around now for a couple of weeks trying to figure out what's fun to play on this server and what's not. I thnk I've tried out eight or nine characters before I ended up with my current trio. So, a big thanks for the "delete character" function!

In general, I'm enjoying myself immensely, so thank you for letting me have fun!

A few observations:
A fighter will easily level up until you get to level 13 or so, then when you get over the hump it's enjoyable until you get to the waste at about lvl 17 or so. (I haven't gotten any further yet.)
A dex-based char, be it Ranger/Rogue or Monk, gets to level 6-8, then it becomes very difficult as far as I've levelled (10-15 or so).
I gave up on my sorcs/wizards at lvl 5. Nothing doing.

Now, I might be doing everything wrong, but still. My observation is that its' hard if you don't have a STR-based char. Why? Because, here's what I think:

1. Most mobs are easy and bosses are very hard. This gives low XP for getting to the boss and then gets you instantly killed. This makes it hard to do quests linear fashion, which is truly not a big problem, but confusing for a newbie.

2. Most monsters seems to have +5 weaponry or better, at least my Soak +5/5 cloak is more or less worthless after getting past Tyranoids. Perhaps decrease enhancements and increase damage?

3. Most monsters are very hard to hit if your AB is not a fighter AB. On the other hand, they don't hit awfully good, but hard. But still, if you have a monk, you can't enchant your gloves in the harbour smithy, which makes fights go on forever. They can't hit you, you can't hit them. Perhaps lower the AC and increasing the HP? Or, make gloves and bows enchantable in the smithy, or add more enchanted gloves/bows, probably a lot less work.

4. There seems to be less armor for non-fighters around. There are a few good choices for monks, but not in the loot. I mostly find (heavy) armor that I can't carry around on my dex-based characters. Perhaps a few more armor/trinkets for magic-users/monks/bow-users in the loot?

5. There are (I think) a lot more possibilities to use smithy/forge and other stuff to get your magic uber-sword, but making gloves, bows and staffs of the uber-kind is harder. Perhaps add a few in the loot? Or as boss drops, or something?

6. Some magic-user opponents are more or less impossible (druids and the High priests on the first island comes to mind) because if you don't have extremely high fort saves (like a fighter), you're dead. Period. A potion of Clarity only lats a few rounds and are heavy to carry around in large numbers.

7. I haven't found any magic bags better than -40 weight. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but as a non-STR-character, you can't carry much loot. This means it takes even longer to level up someone other than a fighter.

8. Lastly, it's hard to optimize for a power-build, since you desperately need Crafting skills for the high-level stuff. Or, you need to build a crafter character to support your other characters. Or, you could be lucky and stumble over someone you can pay for forged stuff. Still, if you're a one character player, it forces you to compromise.

Again, this is perhaps me doing stuff wrong, or not knowing where to go, but it's some honest feedback. Also, since I've built two PW:s myself and worked as a builder on a third, I know what a pain it was to balance everything for everyone, so I try to be respectful. I hope that shows.

Just to be clear: I'm very grateful for this world you've built and let me play around in. I don't expect you to be extatic over my ideas, it's entirely up to you if you say "Wow, great ideas", or "Nah, I'm gonna ignore this dude". No offense taken ... :-) :-)
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driller
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by driller »

You bring up valid points, but most of it can be attributed to the fact that BSK was designed to be a party based server from the get go.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Cornflower »

driller wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:37 pm You bring up valid points, but most of it can be attributed to the fact that BSK was designed to be a party based server from the get go.
Yes, that makes perfect sense. If nothing else, everything is very consistent.

If I didn't say so before: It's also very well built.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by driller »

I appreciate your kind words. I will look into making a better hireling system to help players who play alone.
Cornflower wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:11 pm
driller wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:37 pm You bring up valid points, but most of it can be attributed to the fact that BSK was designed to be a party based server from the get go.
Yes, that makes perfect sense. If nothing else, everything is very consistent.

If I didn't say so before: It's also very well built.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by zhulf »

I leveled a monk to 40 and have found that the gear quite limited.

Only armor you'll need (or want) until is the Robes of the Dark Moon, everything else is quickly outdated. I used that until a +7 Robes of the Shining Hand dropped then crafted haste onto another item.

The monk gloves with +5ab, 1d10 vs evil, 2d20 other ele damage seem to be the best. There is a glove higher than that but I haven't tried it as it seems kinda useless (maybe not, what do I know?).

The problem I've run into is finding gear that is actually useful. None of the monk robes are quite spectacular (DR which is overshadowed by monsters before you can buy it). No high tier Boots of Sun Soul, in fact I think there are Boots of Hardiness +2 which are easily obtainable, completely nullifying the purpose of Sun Soul boots (taking away the slight advantage that monks have in that category). All of the monk cloaks are useless.. I didn't even wear one until I decided to just pick up a +4 resistance cloak for the lulz around level 40.

In terms of crafting.. you can't enhance the gloves I mentioned above. I'm not quite sure how crafting works, but you can't get the AB past 5, or add more damage as far as I know. And like you said, the smithy doesn't work on them. So without some innate knowledge of the workings of the server you can't even penetrate DR higher than +5 as a glove monk. Rings? Sure.. fortitude rings, resistance rings, they're nifty but not much use to a monk. I ran around with the invisibility ring until I could afford the ring you unlock at level 19, though the protection rings work for a while.

I think there should be a monk vendor in the blackstone temple who can supply some good monk items to... monks. Maybe there should be trials that you have to complete to access the higher tiers. Or maybe just make it so we can buff our gloves.

A lot of the content on this server seems, quite frankly, genius. But the gear itself is strange.

P.S. The reward for killing Aildrek is kinda disappointing.

P.P.S. What the heck is a 'Dek' rune used in the magic box? If there actually is a Dek rune specifically.. I have never found one.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by driller »

Have you actually tried crafting at the forge in the frozen wastes(with a high level crafter of course)?

If this isn't working please let me know. You should be able to make some pretty awesome ones there.

zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm I leveled a monk to 40 and have found that the gear quite limited.

Only armor you'll need (or want) until is the Robes of the Dark Moon, everything else is quickly outdated. I used that until a +7 Robes of the Shining Hand dropped then crafted haste onto another item.

The monk gloves with +5ab, 1d10 vs evil, 2d20 other ele damage seem to be the best. There is a glove higher than that but I haven't tried it as it seems kinda useless (maybe not, what do I know?).

The problem I've run into is finding gear that is actually useful. None of the monk robes are quite spectacular (DR which is overshadowed by monsters before you can buy it). No high tier Boots of Sun Soul, in fact I think there are Boots of Hardiness +2 which are easily obtainable, completely nullifying the purpose of Sun Soul boots (taking away the slight advantage that monks have in that category). All of the monk cloaks are useless.. I didn't even wear one until I decided to just pick up a +4 resistance cloak for the lulz around level 40.

In terms of crafting.. you can't enhance the gloves I mentioned above. I'm not quite sure how crafting works, but you can't get the AB past 5, or add more damage as far as I know. And like you said, the smithy doesn't work on them. So without some innate knowledge of the workings of the server you can't even penetrate DR higher than +5 as a glove monk. Rings? Sure.. fortitude rings, resistance rings, they're nifty but not much use to a monk. I ran around with the invisibility ring until I could afford the ring you unlock at level 19, though the protection rings work for a while.

I think there should be a monk vendor in the blackstone temple who can supply some good monk items to... monks. Maybe there should be trials that you have to complete to access the higher tiers. Or maybe just make it so we can buff our gloves.

A lot of the content on this server seems, quite frankly, genius. But the gear itself is strange.

P.S. The reward for killing Aildrek is kinda disappointing.

P.P.S. What the heck is a 'Dek' rune used in the magic box? If there actually is a Dek rune specifically.. I have never found one.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Kalizzle »

Im curious how the reward for aildrek is disappointing? Not being rude but to me ive rather enjoyed loot from the chests managed to get 3 forge stones and some decent sellable items the fetch the max gold at akons
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by zhulf »

I've tried crafting with the "Monk's War Gloves" and it tells me 'This stone is not compatible'. Do I have to start with a blank glove?
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Graves »

zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 pm I've tried crafting with the "Monk's War Gloves" and it tells me 'This stone is not compatible'. Do I have to start with a blank glove?
I'm in-game at the forge if you would like a few pointers on crafting.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Graves »

zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm Only armor you'll need (or want) until is the Robes of the Dark Moon, everything else is quickly outdated. I used that until a +7 Robes of the Shining Hand dropped then crafted haste onto another item.
Yeah, there are fewer 0 base AC armor options to choose from when leveling your first character. On mine I think I used the +3 AC one with +1 DEX and STR right up until I got my first Guarded Noble.
zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm The problem I've run into is finding gear that is actually useful. None of the monk robes are quite spectacular (DR which is overshadowed by monsters before you can buy it). No high tier Boots of Sun Soul, in fact I think there are Boots of Hardiness +2 which are easily obtainable, completely nullifying the purpose of Sun Soul boots (taking away the slight advantage that monks have in that category). All of the monk cloaks are useless.. I didn't even wear one until I decided to just pick up a +4 resistance cloak for the lulz around level 40.
There actually are higher-tier Sun Soul boots than that (+5) but they aren't sold in stores -- you have to know where they drop.
zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm Or maybe just make it so we can buff our gloves.
Edit: You'll never be able to cast Flame Weapon on them, but after learning some things about crafting you might have a different view. Either way, it's true that weapon users will always have an advantage over glove monks from a gear perspective as it stands now, so I sympathize a bit.
zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm P.P.S. What the heck is a 'Dek' rune used in the magic box? If there actually is a Dek rune specifically.. I have never found one.
You're probably referring to Dak runes. They're another reason I consider Lich King loot to be pretty good already.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Kane0 »

Side note:
- Shrine 3 seems to scale in level quite a bit higher than those before and after it
- Shrine 2 and 3 might be better reversed, judging by where the entrances are
- Shrine 4 and 5 dont seem to have 'boss' critters like the previous shrines
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by driller »

It is better to start with Socketed gauntlets/gloves.
zhulf wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 pm I've tried crafting with the "Monk's War Gloves" and it tells me 'This stone is not compatible'. Do I have to start with a blank glove?
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Jake_Master »

I have built a great dex monk before EE, which both mods are pretty much the same, once you have a good pair of forged gloves I find monks just as good as any other character, sure damage tends to be a little lower but you also get 2 extra attack per round so IMO it kind of levels out unless you are duel wielding or a Kama wielding monk.

Learning the mod helps tremendously I find gearing your character for particular resistances for particular areas is the best way to survive with any character weather it be caster, STR melee, or DEX melee, etc.

In addition use tactics that best fit your character, if your a dex based character and know you can’t take on a mob then lure them back and fight one or two at a time. If your a monk hit and run, I have built a number of different style of characters on this server, just about all of them tend to workout in the end if built and used properly.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by Sorcy Sid »

Back to balancing... I always thought it was a bit odd that the low level zombies and skeletons on the road can see invisible characters on BSK road.
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Re: Thought on balancing in general

Post by driller »

All Undead have life sense.
Sorcy Sid wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:43 pm Back to balancing... I always thought it was a bit odd that the low level zombies and skeletons on the road can see invisible characters on BSK road.
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