ECL XP and Appearance Bug

[Humiz]

Shall we be punished for partying up ?
For RP and then go hunt together ?
If Xp is divided because you want to play with you're friends, then what's the point ?
I say again, if you don't want to lvl fast, then don't do it.

Thanks
Humiz

[Deathsinger]

I agree, it is so RARE to get a party sometimes here. WHY punish when someone FINALLY finds a group? Especially for new players who come to the keep and have only low level, base equipped characters.

[driller]

What are you talking about?

-driller

I agree, it is so RARE to get a party sometimes here. WHY punish when someone FINALLY finds a group? Especially for new players who come to the keep and have only low level, base equipped characters.

[Nottingham]

I am at a loss as to why the idea of slightly lowering XP when in a party has to be interpreted as a punishment? That is like saying because hitting a foul ball counts as a strike, it is a punishment. No, it is just a rule, and it is not viewed as a punishment because it is just part of the game, and games have rules. Dividing or lowering XP when in a party is an old school D&D rule that was created for an important purpose. These are not hard-core rules at all, just D&D rules, and I was not even suggesting—although I would not mind—that the total experience be divided evenly by the total members of a party, as Gary Gygax would insist upon, but that it just be cut in half when a party reaches the size of four or so.

The game gets easier as party members are added; it is quite logical that the experience gained would be lowered. If one character is fighting an equally matched foe, it is a battle, and the character can learn a lot from the encounter. If five characters are fighting the same single foe, it is a slaughter, and often times, very little is leaned.

[arwan]

i find it rather rare that i get a party of 4 or more together.. i can often get a party of 2 or so. but that shouldn't effect the XP to me. and also. honestly.. unless your its your first time fighting a certain enemy and you don't know anything about them.. that is really the only time your going to learn something anyway. i don't know how being in a party with more people means i don't learn as much. if anything i learn easier as there is less stress put on me focusing purely on not dieing and i can see what is happening when I'm attacking being attacked etc. so i get a feel of the difficulty of the area for if i was solo or in a smaller group.. and the XP is in its own way lowered when you are in a larger group as it is. since most of the time not everyone is the same level.. there will probably be someone at the extreme upper end of the 5 level limit and they often will be the ones getting most of the kills.. hence you will end up with less xp since they get less for the kill. i would really hate being in an area even as a low level character where some of the enemies give you 30 or so xp and seeing that divided by say 5. that would be ridiculous.. i would then do WAY better on my own. and the same could be said for hard areas. why would i want to fight an enemy that is going to at tops give me 200 XP that is divided by say 5. for 40 xp. when i could go back 2 or 3 zones where there cake walks for me and get more solo. to me anyway if it was implemented it is just going to be a deterrent to getting a party together as people are going to be apprehensive about how there time is going. there going to be thinking gee yea im in a party .. ok.. but I'm getting 1/4 or 1/5th of what i could be doing on my own and i could still be talking to them.. even though were not in the same zone having a good time.

in the PNP environment a DM can compensate for a larger group with more enemies and mixing up the area or objectives. in the NWN2 world that is a little more difficult unless you have a DM there to spawn more in for you or do other things.

just my two cents.. if you cant tell already I'm highly opposed to changing it.

[Deathsinger]

Well, as a DM in PnP for over 19 years i understand that a CR drops based on the average Level of the party (which is also effected by the number in said party, as that too changes the average). But in PnP D&D the DM is actually right there and makes up the CR based on his knowledge of his player group coming for each game session. this can't be done on a set up like NWN2 unless the DM is running live events constantly. So, in RL PnP my players don't wind up getting a low xp value (like a share of 30 divided by 5) because i am able to adjust the CR on the fly as i see it is too high or too low for the current group. This is just something Driller will not be able to do as he can't be present at every groups encounters on his server. So we have to settle with the standard CR of an area and the effect of taking a group too powerful for that CR into the area. I'm sure Driller could work up some fancy algorithm to do this by group, but I don't envy the head ache he may get trying.

[obregon]

My apologies, I can't let this pass. I don't mean the following as a personal criticism, just to be critical of the ideas presented. Because $Deity knows they need to be criticized...

... i can often get a party of 2 or so. but that shouldn't effect the XP to me.

Really? There is the other side of that coin as well. It shouldn't affect the risk/reward ratio either, nor the XP/time spent ratio. In a party of 2 or more, you dramatically decrease the time it takes to get that bucket of XP, and dramatically reduce your risk of dying for it. That is effectively getting a reward for doing things the EASY way.

honestly.. unless your its your first time fighting a certain enemy and you don't know anything about them.. that is really the only time your going to learn something anyway. i don't know how being in a party with more people means i don't learn as much. if anything i learn easier as there is less stress put on me focusing purely on not dieing and i can see what is happening when I'm attacking being attacked etc.

Rationalizing what a character 'learns' by a mangled 'real life' analogy simply doesn't apply. The fundamental idea of increasing XP rewards for increasingly difficult monsters has been the ruling principle on the subject since D&D was published in 1974. XP (aside from roleplaying bonuses) has *always* been proportional to the risk of an encounter, regardless of what anyone thinks their character might have learned...

.. and the XP is in its own way lowered when you are in a larger group as it is. since most of the time not everyone is the same level.. there will probably be someone at the extreme upper end of the 5 level limit and they often will be the ones getting most of the kills.. hence you will end up with less xp since they get less for the kill.

This is just flat out wrong. The obsession of XP per kill, versus XP per hour, is simply a distraction, not seeing the forest for the trees. If anyone hasn't noted how quickly their character gains xp in a group compared to solo, I invite you to try the experiment.

i would really hate being in an area even as a low level character where some of the enemies give you 30 or so xp and seeing that divided by say 5. that would be ridiculous.. i would then do WAY better on my own.

Ridiculous, would be a group of 5 fighting monsters that only WOULD give them 30 or so xp when killed solo. In that silly situation, you really would do better on your own. However, that never happens does it? The group tires of the monsters dying before anybody gets a second swing (likely before some got a FIRST swing), and moves on to harder monsters.

and the same could be said for hard areas. why would i want to fight an enemy that is going to at tops give me 200 XP that is divided by say 5. for 40 xp. when i could go back 2 or 3 zones where there cake walks for me and get more solo.

Here we are, at the heart of the matter. This makes it clear that it isn't the enjoyment of using group tactics, nor that you could "still be talking to them", nor the thrill of challenging monsters that one COULDN'T solo yet, that you value most. Instead the focus is on an arithmetically mistaken idea of XP. I had thought the reason people grouped was that they enjoy group tactics more than solo, the verbal interaction (in or out of character) with groupmates, or taking on heroically dangerous monsters; not that it got them more XP.

but I'm getting 1/4 or 1/5th of what i could be doing on my own and i could still be talking to them.. even though were not in the same zone having a good time.

Aside from the math mistakes, doesn't this just show that XP is being valued far more than "having a good time"?

in the PNP environment a DM can compensate for a larger group with more enemies and mixing up the area or objectives. in the NWN2 world that is a little more difficult unless you have a DM there to spawn more in for you or do other things.

In the NWN2 environment, the players can compensate for a larger group by going to a more difficult area. Its not that hard, really.

just my two cents.. if you cant tell already I'm highly opposed to changing it.

Thank you for this opportunity to present an opposing opinion. I'm highly in favor of changing it

Really, Truly, Sincerely, this isn't personal. I simply find the viewpoint so wrongheaded and abhorrent I can't let it go unchallenged.

[arwan]

ah HA HA HA how can you just quote what i said and then say its not personal.. that baffles me. and then to do it the way you did it.. is quite how should i put this.. i have to think of the word.. oh yea. spiteful. i was simply putting in my two cents after you had already put in yours.. but you decided to in your way rip my ideas appart and remove what anyone else had to say by focusing solely on what i said. and then countering it with anything you could think of.. you cant tell me its not personal when its done in such a manner. its like me walking up to you and hitting you and then saying its not personal.

fact is when people get into hot topics like this almost everything is going to be seen as personal.. the real challenge is trying to not take it that way.. and i'm not ashamed to say it.. the way you did it there.. i take it personal.

[Deathsinger]

Golly! Well all i can say is if Ya don't like alotta xp....go to TFR Server or such. No quests, No big xp, not much but RP and you are hard pressed to hit level 13 in a week or two of play. And LOTTSA just standing around with no where to go.

[hisokaa]

Im not going to agree or disagree, I have said my viewpoints in a party on the server.
In my opinion this game is Neverwinter Nights 2, based from Neverwinter Nights, which was based off DND.
It is not DND, if you want DND go to dungeons and Dragons online or some other bs game.

EXP In NWN2 is completely different to DND, and fact of the matter is, we are on Drillers server, and its not even NWN2 exp anymore, its Drillers EXP that he gifts to US.

So in closing, I will stand by what ever Driller belive is rational and fare to all types of gamers, Solo Power Gamers.
Quick EXP Party players and RP Party gamers.

Why dont you all stop asking for changes on the server, and go back to what we are meant to be doing? Playing, Testing and Bugreporting so driller can press on new things for us to do.

Such as re-making Ailderik's tomb to have the four heavily sought after keys to unlock the tomb that gave great items.
How about the making of the other five shrines so I can go and defeat shalnath?
What about extending quests that go into the waste, Killing of the Dragon ontop of dragonmount, and when we finally get to the yuantis.

What about letting driller finish his forging system, leting him remake the way into akons, letting him make us more balanced and interesting items for gameplay.

Let him remake the marvale extentions and the marvale merchant.

And in final closing, and this is a direct attack against you obregon, why dont you just think about the time effort and harship driller goes through, not to mention the money he pays for the server, and do some good on the server, you have all been playing here for so f'n long and you never bothered to report the bug that Kyron wasnt respawning after being killed after X time? go do some bloody work, then driller might do some work for us.

Ceers Hisokka.

[Deathsinger]

can i just say.....OUCH! Anyone need a Band-Aid? I AM a Cleric after all ....LOL

[obregon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

Right or wrong, I expect that something useful will come of a public argument. At the very least, sorting out the opinions from facts from intents. Not to mention sorting out those who can distinguish between criticism of the ideas they propose, and criticism of them personally.

Then again, since I don't agree with Hisokaa, I'm a moron. He said so, it must be true (he's a computer technician!)

In a nutshell, my opinion is that reward should be proportional to risk. Keeping in mind I'm a moron (small words please) explain where that idea is wrong?

[hisokaa]

Glad we all came to some sort of understanding, lets jus leave these types of things up to driller.
And lets just do what we need to do for driller.

PS im not just a computer technichian, im quialified in telecommunications and im an apprentice chef

[Deathsinger]

I'm a qualified IDIOT. And I have references who will testify, if need be. (Maybe Driller can move this string to Open Discussion, since it's no longer about a bug..... well except the one up the proverbial..ahhh you get my drift.)