The Starkson Protectorate - Update

[Pharo_IK]

:
Nevermind that Starkson is inherently neutral and there is absolutely no reasonable or justifiable reason for any animosity on behalf of 99.9% of the characters from the Mainland.

I recieved a PM that came from someone who misunderstood my meaning with this message. It seems they thought I was claiming that 99.9% of the server was against Starkson without reason. Let me please clear up the meaning:

Starkson has no 'built in natural enemy' the way that Good guilds and evil Guilds are natural foes of eachother. What I meant to point out is that there are few reasons and few people who have a justifiable animosity toward Starkson. Those who have a reason to be contrary with Starkson should be, but not to the point that it becomes the equilivent of OOC harrassment. Of those people (thankfully few) who seem bent towards creating problems - they generally have no valid reason for their behavior other than simply being malicious.

My effort was to point out that people should take the time to consider their actions before jumping on some band wagon to stir up things for no reason other than to occupy their time.

Now I lit into Hordack (the player) pretty hard and perhaps I was harsh, but my reaction was based on the annoying, unnecessary and unprovoked frequency of his comments, barbs and other BS. Do not mistake me.... Hordack (the character) has no 'just' reason to be at odds with Starkson, but he ( the character) does have 'justifiable' reasons to have hard feelings toward Starkson. His character has had several conflicting RP moments and I am not trying to diminish the effect of past RP's. My issue is, as I said above... the annoying, unnecessary and unprovoked frequency of his (the players) comments, barbs and other BS. ... and while sometimes couched in 'RP'.... there is a point that a line is crossed

The line between good natured ribbing and harrassment can be thin, especially when the players behind the characters are not fond of eachother as it is.


Pharo

[Roland Deschain]

Well I am trying to keep from commenting, but I just can't. I think the majority of people who are Beginning to feel bitter feelings towards starkson are feeling them because of comments made that generalize the player base. You were mad at hordack and insulted several. Bad Form. If you want to clarify who the people inside the generalizations are that might help......... but then again it might not.....

[Hordack]

Now I lit into Hordack (the player) pretty hard and perhaps I was harsh, but my reaction was based on the annoying, unnecessary and unprovoked frequency of his comments, barbs and other BS. Do not mistake me.... Hordack (the character) has no 'just' reason to be at odds with Starkson, but he ( the character) does have 'justifiable' reasons to have hard feelings toward Starkson. His character has had several conflicting RP moments and I am not trying to diminish the effect of past RP's. My issue is, as I said above... the annoying, unnecessary and unprovoked frequency of his (the players) comments, barbs and other BS. ... and while sometimes couched in 'RP'.... there is a point that a line is crossed

My comment on this is very smiple. I put forth the first effort to settle any and all grudges between Hordack and Starkson "IC". It was a falure of Starkson Leadership to grasp at the chance to end the "IC" part.

But I can remain a "sour grape" or a "nuisance"running around the keep.

[Pharo_IK]

Well I am trying to keep from commenting, but I just can't. I think the majority of people who are Beginning to feel bitter feelings towards starkson are feeling them because of comments made that generalize the player base. You were mad at hordack and insulted several. Bad Form. If you want to clarify who the people inside the generalizations are that might help......... but then again it might not.....

The only people who were insulted are those who count themselves as described. People know their own hearts and purposes. I can not account for each individuals personal feelings or intentions when they post things. Any who presume that I am generalizing the entire server or even a large group are personalizing something that likely does not even apply to them.

If your looking for definitions, fine. Server Vultures, imho, are those who spend more time looking for way to bring others down OOC for reasons real or imagined than they do spending time looking for ways to improve things. Starkson is not an issue that is up for comment or debate of the playerbase or even the DM's. The issues with Starkson have been discussed with the Admin. People posting their 'enlightened' opinions about what OOC end Starkson should meet are, therefore, clearly barking up the wrong tree.

The reason why I reaspond is simple... Barking dogs often starts a process that ends up with alot of noise and a bunch of annoyance.

Unless I missed it, the only IC resolution Hordack has even extended was extortion based on OOC matters... or at the best.. based on sketchy RP matters that could only apply to another server and which he would not be justified in demanding anyways. Hordack has betrayed nearly everyone he has ever interacted with IC and OOC. He has even bragged IC and OOC how funny it is that different groups keep extending his character the trust they give him. People have 'accused' that Hordack is a good RP'r and I will not deny that, but he also holds to a OOC personal agenda and repeats the same pattern over and over again.

Those who wish to follow in Hordack's shadow are welcome to. I can even understand it. The fellow can be very charming and disarming, but the facts are still true and are proven by history: He will eventualy stir up so much problems and betray enough people IC and OOC that he will have to vacation on another server until the dust settles here. I will not hold a grudge against those of you who who trail behind him now. I don't even hold a grudge against Hordack - I just know he can't be trusted IC or OOC and treat him as such. I count it sad, really.



Anyone who thinks, truely, that I have unfairly labeled them are probibly right and probibly do not deserve such a label.... and those are not the people that label was meant for - so no offense should have been taken. Rare is the player who is selfish enough to want ill on other players. Such players usually get caught up in what sounds like 'logical' and 'reasonable' arguements by others and they voice their support. Once they voice their support they have a vested interest in the plight of that issue. When someone points out flaws in that issue, those players try to counter those flaws and support their own original standing.




The power of public opinion:
It is human nature. It is also an excellent tactic for swaying public opinion: You state something in a way that seems so logical and reasonable that any disagreement comes across as crazy talk.

People hear the stated opinion and rally behind it. it is after all: logical and reasonable.
I.E. The opinion: "Starkson is a ghost town and I have been through it all many times and never seen anyone. They have lots of space they don't use and someone else could. Therefore - they should lose that space."

What is often lacking in such statements of opinion are the facts and the truth. The facts and the truth are the enemies of those who use this kind of public manipulation. When the facts and the truth are used, the only way to fight it is to change the rules of engagement so that it speaking the facts and the truth become an unwanted intrusion:
I.E. The format: Use of the IC RP boards to broadcast an OOC agenda because most of the facts and the truths invoved in this scenerio are based on RL and OOC factors that do not translate well to IC or RP formats.

Once an opinion is provided a format that is not condusive to rebuttal and stated in a fashion that is designed to convey simple and easily supported ideas people can invest in, the next stage is to take the high ground:
I.E. The HighGround: With IC as the ideal format for supporting the original opinion, and the opposition using OOC to refute the IC claims, the 'high ground' is the action of being offended and saddened by the hostility and unwillingness of the opposition to 'play by the rules'.

The 'high ground' concept is one that further reinforces the 'invested interest' of the public because now they have 'proof' that the opposition is not reasonable and therefore their position as the opposition is further eroded in public opinion.

Hordack has used and will use this predicitable formula as often as it serves his 'vested interest'.

And sure... I may have come across as someone who is acting unreasonable in the face of logical and reasonable statements that were addressed IC and so some of you are now completely sure that Starkson does not play by the rules.


The problem is that the facts and truths of this matter is that:
Starkson meets and exceeds all the requirements for a guild on BSK.
Starkson matters that could have been a problem have been discussed with the Admin.
Starkson is not designed to be a high traffic area. It is a place to go to get away from other places when one is not planning any hunting.
Starkson is led by someone who does not give two shakes about Hordacks opinion.
Starkson would rather stand up against false public opinion and suffer peoples OOC anger and frustation than bow to OOC manipulations.

Last but not least.. The rules are set up by the Admin not by Hordack.




So the question boils down to if people are going to remain invested in the ideas and opinions of Hordack that are based on misunderstandings and the ommission of facts or are people going to take the reality of the situation to heart and recognise the truth for what it is.

If anyone still insists on their feeling being hurt, I apologize for your discomfort, but I will not apologize for defending myself or my guild in the face of this or any other defamation.

Pharo

[Hordack]

OH GOD HELP ME!

Pharo you dont even have a clue do you? You want to drag this out be my guest. But clearly by your own statement you do not know truth from fiction or IC from Occly of what has happened within the 4 years Hordack has been on the server. Clearly you should get your facts strait before you make posts like this.

Well clearly you wish to drag this out and beat it to death ... so not even going to bother with you

But when you wish settle this and end all the grudges You can find Hordack in the keep.

"If it smells like crap it must be crap"

[ST_DM_Myle]

This thread had so much potential.... oh well.

To clarify and settle this matter - Hordack and Pharo - your both right and wrong on different points. Perhaps you should both drop it and move on with your lives.

For the record, Hordack's RP post could have been replied to in RP in a manner which would have shut it down:
"The Starkson does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Keep."

And if you did not want to open the can of worms by posting that as a player, you could have asked a DM to post it.

RP-wise, the keep has no jurisdiction over Starkson, Free Folk, SOM, or the Hunters Lodge/castle. The Lord of Blackstone granted them their independency and with good cause == He does not want the Keep forced to pick sides when it comes to their factional infighting. Free Folk - will likely revert back to Keep jurisdiction by fiat claim of the regional superpower == The Lord of Blackstone. If/when that happens that space may be made available for another faction.

OOC-wise: Of course, the Admin has authority over all the guilds.

Two other DM's have chimed in, Avalon in specific asked for the RP thread to be steered back to RP and was summarily disregarded. While Starkson may have reviewed these issues with the Admin and may be completely in their right to call foul regarding the player fued - that does not give Starkson the right to unload on a DM who is just doing their job.

Disagree with a DM? Fine. Disregard a DM? Not fine.

Avalon deserves an apology.

As far as this fued goes, either drop it as I said before or take it to PM's and if you feel future posts on this matter are inappropriate - contact a DM and plead your case.
I think the outcome of this feud one proves that whether right or wrong, open forum fueds like this are not going to produce any winners.

As such, I am locking this thread.

If Starkson wants to repost the useful information here, by all means do so, but leave the fued dialogue behind the lock.

Myle