Stacking soak and reduction

[tropiofCancer]

Adaption really isnt a problem , the problem is variety . Sure , I can make a bludger as a matter of fact I made a real swank amber warhammer for a good friend that recently left the server for the most part and would be more than happy to hand it to me But as I said thats not the point . Have any of you guys ever found a bare bones helm w/ 25% blud or pierce resist ripe for the crafting ? How about in 15 minutes of farming in Marvale? My points was that the item is so damn common everyone can get 50% resist straight off the top .
I've noticed lately that when you put a socket in a shield now it goes immunity 5% rather than reduction 5/ too..and It will now only hold one socket . I remember when you could get 5 different types of damage on a weapon too , and I have also heard rumors that back in the day you could get +7ac from a certain stone that now only yeilds a +6ac bonus . What Im getting at is this , those things no longer exist because it was just too damn much really is what Im thinking . So why not reevaluate The BlackStone Hood is all Im saying . Im not demanding Luceran or Driller immediately log on and change something I dont agree with , its just an observation . I got quite a few fully forged BS Hoods and Im not gonna throw them in the temple trash can if they get "tamed" is all Im saying . Good gaming and thanks everyone for their imput , you too Myles .

[driller]

I would be happy to try to balance things better. Continue with your discussion.

-driller

[tropiofCancer]

Thanks for Listening Driller and by the way its good to see Mr Lee on the forums more.
When I think Fantasy Role Playing the first thing that comes to mind is ..Swords . I mean civilization was cut from chaos with its edge right? Its my intention to get the swords and axes out of Akons Clearance Rack and back into Players hands nothing more , thanks again .

[Wing--Zero]

I got a question to. What was the purpose of nerfing the helms and shields to where you couldn't get 25% immunity anymore to balance it out? Now we still have the same problem people can get almost 100% slashing immunity with the Blackstone hood added in. Although it wont fix things to where every weapon is on a even playing field it would however, make it not as easy as to obtain 50% immunity to slashing weapons.

[ST_DM_Myle]

Well... if the balance issue is open....

I suggest leaving the items alone....

Instead of changing what is already in game, simply max a players total possible "active" Damage Immunity to a given percentage. If players could only have a maximum active immunity of any given damage type of .. say 50% ... then it might even allow the removal of that PM nerf. This would not force any kind of retrocative change to items - so anyone dependent on something like the helm for the bulk of their damage immunity would not feel like an item had been ruined.

Myle

[Wing--Zero]

Well... if the balance issue is open....

I suggest leaving the items alone....

Instead of changing what is already in game, simply max a players total possible "active" Damage Immunity to a given percentage. If players could only have a maximum active immunity of any given damage type of .. say 50% ... then it might even allow the removal of that PM nerf. This would not force any kind of retrocative change to items - so anyone dependent on something like the helm for the bulk of their damage immunity would not feel like an item had been ruined.

Myle

I understand where you are coming from on this but, what is the point of leaving the immunities at 50% when that was a example that was used?
I still do not see the point in leaving the Blackstone hood when items like that were supost to have been nerfed already. Thats also another point why should everyone be able to obtain slashing immunity so easily? Why should you be able to get 50% immune to 1 type of damage like its nothing. Instead of having to work for it and find the said colored stone and add them up? The item itself wont be ruined it will still have all its normal properties just the immunity will be taken down to 5% instead like a normal socketed helmet.

[ST_DM_Myle]

I did not go back to reread the OP... Meh... the principle is unchanged though.

If a mere 50% immunity is supposed to be grounds for lowering the hoods value, whats the difference if we limit all items to 5%.... when there are 10 items that can be forged and still have 50% immunity.

The result is that the disparity between those with forged items and those without forged items will grow even larger.

If the hoods get nerfed, what is next? Make Barbs and DD's give up some DR because too many characters are Dex builds and can't hurt those characters reliably enough? Will suggestions of strategy and tactic changes be considered being mean then also?


The server is designed with a rock/paper/scissors type of balance. A rock has an advantage over scissors. If your tired of your scissors being defeated by rocks, try something else. This idea of nerfing the hood is like making a rule that a person is not allowed to play 'rock' every hand just because your whole strategy is based on using 'scissors' everytime.


Many mid-level characters and server newbie's rely on that helm until they are able to get to a point that using the forge becomes possible/practical. For myself... I don't care. The hood is not going to make or break my strategy either way, but it bothers me that we have people who seem to wake up one day and log to the forums and type in some variation of .... " Wow, I have noticed something that makes me feel like my character is not as good as I want my character to be. Can we nerf that thing? It would be a huge pain for me to actually make any changes of my own or for me to just live with it. "




Here is a hint: If you can't hurt someone, don't fight them. If you just MUST enter into conflict with that person, get a buddy who CAN hurt them or adapt your techniques.


There is:
Air
Acid
Ice/cold
Fire
Sonic
Magic
Divine
Positive
Negative
Slashing
Bluedgeoning
Piercing
Poison
Level drain

and probibly other ways to damage your target with the NWN engine.

If Slashing does not work, try another one.




One persons failure to properly plan for conflict does not mean that ones chosen foe should have their advantage nerfed.


Myle

[Thanatos]

*In a Sean Connery-type voice*

Are we talking about "Swords" or "S-Words"?.....SABRE!!!!!

[tropiofCancer]

Let me clear the air a bit , I think someone thinks I posted my thoughts on the BlackStone Hood because I think it makes my character weaker or that I dont know how to plan or use strategies ..well , I happen to have a character that does use a slashing weapon and he's far from unsuccessfull , Be it PvP or PvM . I've slain Shalnath , Death Chickens , Tar Valon, and PMs alike and yeah ...warhammer and morning star WM's too . As far as strategies go..well my two stage taunt aint what it use to be but contrary to popular opinion I have actually broken mages w/ a melee using it .
The above list compiled by Myles is laughable to me when I start thinking of PvP and guildwars . In all my time on BSK I have NEVER seen a player using a weapon with positive damage on it , If one did he would have DM's browsing his inventory looking for it . Magical yes , The mighty "magic weapon" drops that do a massive 1d4 and possess a devastating +1 EB . (yeah , go fight someone w/ that) . Fire , Electrical , and cold? who on the server who's been there over a week hasnt bought a Ring of Power . As far as acid goes damn near every monster does it and by the time you can get it you click on Epic Energy Resist Acid no matter what your Hit Point roll is . EER Sonic is also a prerequisite for anyone who wants to PvP , So that list means absolutely nothing to me or any other player thats been here any amount of time . Come to think of it..everytime I've ever thrown down w/ a DM's Dragon what spewed from its mouth is positive and Divine energy , When a celestial warrior starts whailing on you with his sword (slashing weapon) the damage done is positive/magical/divine...perhaps the DM's already know .

[ST_DM_Myle]

Yeah yeah... positive damage is a moot point. Whatever.

The point is, the Blackstone Hood only have one trait - 25% slash immunity.There are lots of better helms, but even if there wern't - so what?
Lets say we drop the Hood to 5%. Great, you do a few more points of damage. Jolly good times for you.... until what? What is going to be next?

Shall we later limit all items to a max of 5% damage immunity?
What about the items that have 2 types of immunity? Delete one?
Then what about items that DR and Immunity? Would that be too versitile?

What about people who think +20 is too uber?
What about those who think we should not allow competeing elements on the same weapon? (i.e. no cold and fire on the same sword)
What about those who think we should not have competeing DR's on the same item? (i.e. rings of power)


Lets say, for a moment, that I agree and that we should reduce the impact that Immunities have on combat. Working under tha assumption leaves other issues we need to address:
Will spawn need to be adjusted?
Will the damage potential of players need to be adjusted?
Is the Hood the only item that is a problem or are there others?
How broad a stroke can we draw before we create more balance problems than we solve?

There is alot more to this than "Hey, the Hood is too uber even for a high magic +20 server."


There seems to be this idea that I have a problem with nerfing the Hood - I don't.

My personal preference is a low magic (lucky to have a +6 item) type of gaming environment that would be far more RP oriented, but BSK is not that kind of server. When I want to play on that kind of server, there are many available to me. BSK is one of the best balanced high magic servers that is offered. Making a change that 'seems like' a good idea without clearly considering the effect on the whole server would be a bad practice.

There have been several changes that 'seemed like a good idea at the time' and those changes go reversed. Sadly, since those changes were done by dynamic scripting, every one who logged in during the 'fix' got nerfed, but once the nerf was removed- everyone else did not suffer the nerf. There was no 'accurate' way to correct the nerf so people just had to live with it. Some items that had taken months or years worth of hunting and forging to get correct were trashed by an 'oops'.



Don't misjudge my questioning your idea. I am trying to get you to look outside the narrow view of nerfing for nerfing sake. If the Hood needs nerfing - that is fine, but lets address the other avenues first. And... lets address the impact and consequences of such a nerf.


Myle

[Axe Madness]

even if you nerfed it the morning star still does 2 types of dmg swords are a dying breed crank windows vs power windows HRM? most of you are gana go with power windows because it's what? it's BeTtEr thats just how it goes

[driller]

I agree on the immunities, it is very easy to be 100% immune to slashing. I liked the ideal about an immunity cap.
Perhaps we could also add an AC cap too. Since AC is way out of balance compared to AB.

-driller

[Eldora Blackwood]

No offence to anyone ... but I've noticed that in these type of discussions that most of the players actually suggesting stuff rarely play on BSK these days

It would be nice if you guys actually played more often

[Alamore-Threepwood]

I can see the balancing / putting a cap on immunities, (so leave the blackstone hoody but say put a max on so you can only get 40 - 50% max on anything) but the ac is just fine, most builds that tend to have "god like" ac, have crap for ab, and so you get fights that never end, unless the other person has bad ac, well then, that was their own fault in their build. AC just fine, Immunities could be worked on, thats my two cents =D (and yes, my Veno build can get 101 ac, but if you mord him, drops to like 90, and his ab goes from 53 to 30 0.0) And Axe, the sword meh be a dying breed, but it's still the sexiest weapon out there =D.

[Hordack]

Personaly things are fine just the way they are ... I have a dex build that has great AB and SC plus a hide and move silently which some think is outrages ... but I also use scrolls, wands and potions for hunting and PvP ...

Person needs to learn "TACTICS" cause some will say HOrdack's build is weak and crapy and then "poof" when I kill these same people in a RP assassination or just have little PvP fun they whine and cry cause I used Time Stop, Mords, Harm scrolls, a few nice divine scrolls that give me extra magical damage.

So I say stop look at other avenue's on how to improve you ability in PvP cause this what we are taking about is PvP ... That is why in the Military we call it "TACTICS" ... thinking how to overcome, addapt ... and take out your target.

Please continue to make fun of me when I buff with my 10+ scrolls and wands in the arena. Atleast I figured out how to beat those so called "uber builds" with high AC and lots of damage immunites ... it's callled "tactics" and "ambush" ... nothing better in my eye's then catching a Knight or a Mage caught flat-footed with a time stop scroll ... It's like a Deer caught in you headlight's