Tumble question

[Dan8145]

Just wondering what the max tumble is on a char. Say a weapon master with a few rogue levels thrown in? Lol, basically, I wanna rebuild Toman, but give him at least 70 AB (unbuffed) and keep him as a str build...any suggestions? Cheers peeps

[Pretty Fly White Guy]

The max ranks that effect your AC is 40.

The max ranks to stop AoO is 15, believe.

[eclipse08]

Yep. The DC for an AoO is 15. That 40 Tumble will give you a +8 Dodge bonus to your AC. Just remember, anything that denies your character a dexterity bonus denies him the dodge bonus.

Example: Jason QuickAsALick is a DEX based fighter. Let's say he's got a DEX of 26, which gives him a +8 bonus. If he's using non-magical Padded armor only and no shield his AC is 19. He's also got say 40 Tumble. That's another +8. Total AC with DEX and Tumble is 27. Let's say he's in combat and gets knocked down. This denies the character his DEX bonus, and also his tumble bonus. That leaves him on his butt with an AC of 11, which is the +1 armor bonus from the padded plus his base AC of 10. He's deadmeat.

[GoVols]

Yep. The DC for an AoO is 15. That 40 Tumble will give you a +8 Dodge bonus to your AC. Just remember, anything that denies your character a dexterity bonus denies him the dodge bonus.

Example: Jason QuickAsALick is a DEX based fighter. Let's say he's got a DEX of 26, which gives him a +8 bonus. If he's using non-magical Padded armor only and no shield his AC is 19. He's also got say 40 Tumble. That's another +8. Total AC with DEX and Tumble is 27. Let's say he's in combat and gets knocked down. This denies the character his DEX bonus, and also his tumble bonus. That leaves him on his butt with an AC of 11, which is the +1 armor bonus from the padded plus his base AC of 10. He's deadmeat.

That's why uncanny dodge is so nice, atleast for the DEX bonus AC.

As for tumble they are correct. No need to worry about going over 40 skill points. 45 will not give you more AC that 40 points.


As for your 70+ AB STR based WM/R they are common and a typical is one of the two. F11/B1 or R1/WM28, F12/B3 or R3/WM25 . Both will have 70+ AB.

[Pretty Fly White Guy]

btw thats 15 DC modified (with dex and all that crap)

but the 40 for the AC bonus is base ranks, without any skill bonuses and modifiers

[Valnir]

Dodging AoO is not a problem with WM, they get the feats to ignore those anyway. Well they need the feats for the WM class, dodge, mobility and spring attack. So AoO are not a problem. The +8 dodge bonus is nice, that means you only need to get +12 from somewhere else, crafted boots with +6 dodge and haste give you +10 dodge. so +2 from something else, spells maybe? With rogue you can get umd for those spells. A fighter/WM/Rogue can get the +20 dodge bonus easy plus loads of other nastieness.

My personal favorite build is the fighter 12 / WM 25 / Rogue 3.
First rogue at 22 and last anywhere at 37 or 40. Easy build with evasion, uncanny dodge with loads of skill points and skills.
This is a real power build when you go with human, can take care of almost all rogue things too.

[Katar]

Dodging AoO is not a problem with WM, they get the feats to ignore those anyway. Well they need the feats for the WM class, dodge, mobility and spring attack. So AoO are not a problem. The +8 dodge bonus is nice, that means you only need to get +12 from somewhere else, crafted boots with +6 dodge and haste give you +10 dodge. so +2 from something else, spells maybe? With rogue you can get umd for those spells. A fighter/WM/Rogue can get the +20 dodge bonus easy plus loads of other nastieness.

My personal favorite build is the fighter 12 / WM 25 / Rogue 3.
First rogue at 22 and last anywhere at 37 or 40. Easy build with evasion, uncanny dodge with loads of skill points and skills.
This is a real power build when you go with human, can take care of almost all rogue things too.

Is there a special script in BSK that includes the tumble bonus to ac into the +20 dodge cap? If not, then the +8 tumble ac is not part of that calculation. See the next to last line in the following link:
http://www.nwnwiki.org/Tumble

and for a complete list of all the ac types and caps this link is helpful:
http://www.nwnwiki.org/Armor_class#Other_sources_of_AC

[Valnir]

http://thewastelands.org/viewtopic.php?p=2394#2394

Dodge AC bonuses (stack up to 20 cap) Innate AC Bonuses (all stack)
- Boots (+10) - Bone Skin (+18 )
- Divine Shield (+20) - Draconic Armor (+8 )
- Bard Song (+7) - Monk Armor (+8 )
- Haste (+4) - Tumble (+8 )
- Mage Armor (+1) - Armor Skin (+2)
- Epic Mage Armor (+5)
- Dodge Feat (+1) *unless "flat-footed"
- Defensive Stance (+4)
- Battle Training v Giants (+4)

Hmmm, right i must say that it is a bit confuzing, but i don't really understand the way the ac changes work here.
In the normal nwn game tumble ac bonus is not counted towards dodge ac.

Well after reading things again i would say this:
Dodge AC bonuses (stack up to 20 cap
- Boots (+10)
- Divine Shield (+20)
- Bard Song (+7)
- Haste (+4)
- Mage Armor (+1)
- Epic Mage Armor (+5)
- Defensive Stance (+4)
- Battle Training v Giants (+4)

And:

Innate AC Bonuses (all stack)
- Bone Skin (+18 )
- Draconic Armor (+8 )
- Monk Armor (+8 )
- Tumble (+8 )
- Armor Skin (+2)
- Dodge Feat (+1) *unless "flat-footed"
- Defensive Stance (+4)
- Battle Training v Giants (+4)
- Small Stature (+1, or more generally the size modifier)

[Katar]

http://thewastelands.org/viewtopic.php?p=2394#2394

Dodge AC bonuses (stack up to 20 cap) Innate AC Bonuses (all stack)
- Boots (+10) - Bone Skin (+18 )
- Divine Shield (+20) - Draconic Armor (+8 )
- Bard Song (+7) - Monk Armor (+8 )
- Haste (+4) - Tumble (+8 )
- Mage Armor (+1) - Armor Skin (+2)
- Epic Mage Armor (+5)
- Dodge Feat (+1) *unless "flat-footed"
- Defensive Stance (+4)
- Battle Training v Giants (+4)

Hmmm, right i must say that it is a bit confuzing, but i don't really understand the way the ac changes work here.
In the normal nwn game tumble ac bonus is nout counted towards dodge ac.

It is confusing because it was not formatted properly. There are supposed to be 2 columns in that post-the column listing the ac bonus's subject to the +20 limit -----and then the column for those ac bonus's not subject to the cap. The 2nd ac type listed on each line should have been formatted to fall under the non-capped ac.

[Pretty Fly White Guy]

Tumble AC is named as Dodge AC by the game, but is in fact not counted towards the cap.