PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

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Yunim
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PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Yunim »

This build is a purely defensive tank that gets Epic Dodge in addition to the usual Damage Reduction and Damage Resistances.
When fully equipped the build will have 960HP, Epic Dodge, 27/- Damage Reduction, and 10/- Damage Resistance to all five elemental damage types (not including DR from equipment).

There are already two PvM tank builds on the forum, but both of those are STR builds that opt for damage over defence.

Since this is a purely defensive build I recommend levelling this in a party with DPS or caster builds.
In pre-epic levels your AB and damage will be mediocre for a DEX build, but in epic levels your lack of offensive abilities will really start to show.

There are a few spare pre-epic feats in this build, particularly Great Fortitude and Weapon Focus.
It might be tempting to swap some of the Epic Energy Resistance feats for pre-epic Resist Energy feats in order to get more HP, but this isn't optimal in terms of equipment layout.

There is at least 1 point in all of the skills which require training to use, so that you can attempt to disable traps or pick locks.

===

Code: Select all

Rogue(13), Dwarven Defender(26), Fighter(1), Dwarf

STR: 8
DEX: 18 (25)
CON: 18 (24)
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 6

Code: Select all

01: Rogue(1): Dodge
02: Rogue(2)
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Rogue(4): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Knockdown
07: Rogue(7)
08: Rogue(8): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Rogue(9): Toughness
10: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
11: Dwarven Defender(1)
12: Dwarven Defender(2): CON+1, Weapon Focus: Rapier, (CON=19)
13: Dwarven Defender(3)
14: Dwarven Defender(4)
15: Dwarven Defender(5): Blind Fight
16: Dwarven Defender(6): CON+1, (CON=20)
17: Dwarven Defender(7)
18: Dwarven Defender(8): Great Fortitude
19: Dwarven Defender(9)
20: Dwarven Defender(10): CON+1, (CON=21)
21: Fighter(1): Epic Damage Reduction I, Epic Damage Reduction II
22: Rogue(11)
23: Dwarven Defender(11)
24: Dwarven Defender(12): DEX+1, Epic Damage Reduction III, (DEX=21)
25: Dwarven Defender(13)
26: Dwarven Defender(14): Epic Energy Resistance: Sonic I
27: Rogue(12): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=22)
28: Dwarven Defender(15): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
29: Dwarven Defender(16)
30: Dwarven Defender(17): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=24)
31: Dwarven Defender(18): Epic Energy Resistance: Acid I
32: Dwarven Defender(19): CON+1, (CON=22)
33: Dwarven Defender(20): Epic Energy Resistance: Cold I
34: Dwarven Defender(21)
35: Dwarven Defender(22): Epic Energy Resistance: Fire I
36: Dwarven Defender(23): CON+1, Great Dexterity III, (DEX=25), (CON=23)
37: Dwarven Defender(24)
38: Dwarven Defender(25)
39: Rogue(13): Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll
40: Dwarven Defender(26): CON+1, Epic Energy Resistance: Electricity I, (CON=24)

Code: Select all

Disable Trap 1(2), Discipline 43(42), Heal 43(42), Lore 11(14), Open Lock 1(8), Pick Pocket 1(8), Set Trap 1(8),
Spellcraft 21(22), Tumble 40(47), UMD 42(40)

Ro	01: Disable Trap(1), Heal(4), Lore(4), Open Lock(1), Pick Pocket(1), Set Trap(1), Spellcraft(2), Tumble(4),
UMD(4), Save(12), 
Ro	02: Heal(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(17), 
Ro	03: Heal(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(20), 
Ro	04: Heal(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(25), 
Ro	05: Heal(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(28), 
Ro	06: Heal(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(33), 
Ro	07: Heal(1), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(36), 
Ro	08: Heal(1), Lore(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(41), 
Ro	09: Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(45), 
Ro	10: Heal(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(51), 
DD	11: Discipline(14), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
DD	12: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(38), 
DD	13: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
DD	14: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(38), 
DD	15: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
DD	16: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(38), 
DD	17: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
DD	18: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(38), 
DD	19: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
DD	20: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(38), 
F	21: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(37), 
Ro	22: Heal(1), Tumble(12), UMD(12), Save(21), 
DD	23: Discipline(2), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(19), 
DD	24: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(20), 
DD	25: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(19), 
DD	26: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(20), 
Ro	27: Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(5), UMD(5), Save(16), 
DD	28: Discipline(2), Heal(1), Save(16), 
DD	29: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15), 
DD	30: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(16), 
DD	31: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15), 
DD	32: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(16), 
DD	33: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15), 
DD	34: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(16), 
DD	35: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15), 
DD	36: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(16), 
DD	37: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15), 
DD	38: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Save(16), 
Ro	39: Heal(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(10), UMD(12), 
DD	40: Discipline(2), Heal(1), 
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by The Flying Rodent »

Looks good. I’d be tempted to maybe swap 2 points of intelligence over to strength, and ditch Discipline skill in the process. My experience playing a build like this is that encumbrance is annoying, especially when you’re expected to not have strength buffs available due to them being dispelled continually. Some more strength instead of an arguably useless skill on a dex character could help mitigate this problem at least a little bit.

As for what items to equip it with, I’m sure if you found a similar looking tank build in game that its’ user would be able to help out. There’s a pretty standard ‘tank outfit’ covering a set of resistances and damage immunities.
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Yunim
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Yunim »

After the recent socket changes, the best shield for this build is now a socketed shield.

Tanks will be better off using a "Ring of Power" to cover elemental DR rather than a "Dragon Shield", although with the right equipment it is possible to leave both ring slots free. You will need to get 10/- Acid DR from another slot in order to match the "Dragon Shield" DR, but that is fairly easy to achieve. While building with the "Ring of Power" in mind you can gain 60 HP by switching your resistance feats around. However, with the right equipment the original build is slightly better even with the 60 HP difference.

In order to gain 60 HP, switch EER: Cold, EER: Electrical, and EER: Fire for Great CON 2 and Epic Toughness 1 (this will require reordering feats).
You will also need to switch Great Fortitude, Knockdown, and Weapon Focus for Resist Cold Energy, Resist Electrical Energy, and Resist Fire Energy (this will also require reordering feats).
The new build should end up with 25 DEX, 26 CON, and a max HP of 1020 when fully equipped.
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by itchyfunk »

Yunim,
Since AC tends not to matter end-game and the tumble check is a constant DC 15 can you safely reassign some of those skill points? Or is there another reason to invest more than 15 skill (- the Dex Mod) into tumble?
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Yunim »

All of the builds I post are more general guidelines rather than strict blueprints, you can customise them however you want. Even the builds that I use myself aren't exact copies of the versions I post on the forums.

The only skills that are absolutely essential for this build are 14 Tumble (after DEX and armor modifiers) and 33 UMD (after CHA modifier). You can adjust the other skills or even lower INT to 8 if you want, just make sure that you have those two values. Having more than 15 Tumble lets you use any combination of armor and shields without worrying about AoO's but the extra AC isn't needed.

Edit: Actually Epic Dodge has a 30 Tumble prerequisite so that is the minimum required for the build. You drop the Tumble ranks from 40 to 30 without any issues.
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Yunim »

Recently I have updated some of my PvM builds and so I decided to post the updated versions on the forums. There aren't any major differences, most of the changes are small such as different skill progressions or feat rearrangements. These builds are made for myself rather than for general players so you might wish to alter some things to suit your own needs.

With +12 DEX, +12 CON, a +20 AB rapier, and +6 AC items, it will have the following:
AB: 27 (BAB) + 13 (DEX) + 20 (AB bonus) = +60
AC: 10 (Base) + 13 (DEX) + 8 (Tumble) + 2 (Shield) + 30 (AC bonus) + 4 (Haste) = 67
HP: 400 (Base) + 520 (CON) + 40 (Feats) = 960
Fortitude: 20 (Base) + 13 (CON) + 3 (Feats) = 36
Reflex: 20 (Base) + 13 (DEX) + 3 (Feats) = 36
Will: 20 (Base) - 1 (WIS) + 1 (Feats) = 20

===

Code: Select all

Rogue(13), Dwarven Defender(26), Fighter(1), Dwarf

STR: 8
DEX: 18 (25)
CON: 18 (24)
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 6

Code: Select all

01: Rogue(1): Luck of Heroes
02: Rogue(2)
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Rogue(4): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Dodge
07: Rogue(7)
08: Rogue(8): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
09: Rogue(9): Toughness
10: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
11: Dwarven Defender(1)
12: Dwarven Defender(2): CON+1, Great Fortitude, (CON=19)
13: Dwarven Defender(3)
14: Dwarven Defender(4)
15: Dwarven Defender(5): Lightning Reflexes
16: Dwarven Defender(6): CON+1, (CON=20)
17: Dwarven Defender(7)
18: Dwarven Defender(8): Blind Fight
19: Dwarven Defender(9)
20: Dwarven Defender(10): CON+1, (CON=21)
21: Fighter(1): Epic Damage Reduction I, Epic Damage Reduction II
22: Rogue(11)
23: Dwarven Defender(11)
24: Dwarven Defender(12): CON+1, Epic Damage Reduction III, (CON=22)
25: Dwarven Defender(13)
26: Dwarven Defender(14): Epic Energy Resistance: Fire I
27: Rogue(12): Epic Energy Resistance: Cold I
28: Dwarven Defender(15): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
29: Dwarven Defender(16)
30: Dwarven Defender(17): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=22)
31: Dwarven Defender(18): Epic Energy Resistance: Acid I
32: Dwarven Defender(19): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
33: Dwarven Defender(20): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=24)
34: Dwarven Defender(21)
35: Dwarven Defender(22): Epic Energy Resistance: Sonic I
36: Dwarven Defender(23): CON+1, Great Dexterity III, (DEX=25), (CON=23)
37: Dwarven Defender(24)
38: Dwarven Defender(25)
39: Rogue(13): Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll
40: Dwarven Defender(26): CON+1, Epic Energy Resistance: Electricity I, (CON=24)

Code: Select all

Disable Trap 1(2), Lore 20(23), Open Lock 8(15), Pick Pocket 1(8), Search 27(28), Set Trap 1(8), Spellcraft 21(22),
Spot 43(42), Tumble 40(47), UMD 42(40)

Ro	01: Disable Trap(1), Lore(4), Open Lock(4), Pick Pocket(1), Search(4), Set Trap(1), Spellcraft(2), Spot(4),
Tumble(4), UMD(4), Save(5), 
Ro	02: Lore(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(8), 
Ro	03: Lore(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(9), 
Ro	04: Lore(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(12), 
Ro	05: Lore(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(13), 
Ro	06: Lore(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(17), 
Ro	07: Lore(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(19), 
Ro	08: Lore(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(23), 
Ro	09: Lore(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(25), 
Ro	10: Lore(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(29), 
DD	11: Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(28), 
DD	12: Lore(1), Spot(1), Save(29), 
DD	13: Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(28), 
DD	14: Lore(1), Spot(1), Save(29), 
DD	15: Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(28), 
DD	16: Spot(1), Save(30), 
DD	17: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(30), 
DD	18: Spot(1), Save(32), 
DD	19: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(32), 
DD	20: Spot(1), Save(34), 
F	21: Spellcraft(1), Save(35), 
Ro	22: Search(12), Spot(2), Tumble(12), UMD(12), Save(6), 
DD	23: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(6), 
DD	24: Spot(1), Save(8), 
DD	25: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(8), 
DD	26: Spot(1), Save(10), 
Ro	27: Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(5), UMD(5), Save(4), 
DD	28: Spot(1), Save(6), 
DD	29: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(6), 
DD	30: Spot(1), Save(8), 
DD	31: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(8), 
DD	32: Spot(1), Save(10), 
DD	33: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(10), 
DD	34: Spot(1), Save(12), 
DD	35: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(12), 
DD	36: Spot(1), Save(14), 
DD	37: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Save(14), 
DD	38: Spot(1), Save(16), 
Ro	39: Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(10), UMD(12), 
DD	40: Lore(2), Spot(1), 
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Pharo_IK »

There was mention of possibly taking pre-epic energy resist feats, but it was my understanding that pre-epic feats did not stack with gear or with epic-energy resist.... but that epic energy and items did stack?

Anyone know for sure?
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Re: PvM Tank Build - Rogue 13 / Dwarven Defender 26 / Fighter 1

Post by Mask-inc »

It's the 2 feats that don't stack with one another, both stack with gears.


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