PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

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The Flying Rodent
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PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by The Flying Rodent »

Given the lack of PvP builds that have been posted so far on the forum, in addition to having seen this particular class split pop up several times on the Blackstone login screen, I figured it was time to give this build its’ own post.

Out of the gate: This is probably my favourite build in NWN. I have played it on every NWN server that I spent significant time on [which including Blackstone is now 6, most of which were pretty much Vanilla], and it has been interesting to track its’ strength across different environments. It was originally conceived as a PvM build, though I’d say it has overall succeeded moreso in PvP than PvM across the servers that I have played it on. It is certainly stronger in PvP than PvM on Blackstone [at least at the highest level], hence why I gave it this particular label.

In a nutshell, the build is what I’d call a ‘Bardsword’ : A melee Bard that fights in Heavy Armour [similar to the archetype Bard Crafting builds here]. Bards suffer from Arcane Spell Failure, which for this build is overcome by: Removing Armour and Shield to buff after resting, and using Still Spell for any spellcasting required mid-combat.

In addition to lots of Bard: Blackguard provides 1 extra attack per round, Weapon/Armour Proficiencies, Divine Might/Shield and Charisma to saves [which is quite a lot of stuff from 4 levels!], and Red Dragon Disciple provides ‘lots of numbers’. Having 26 Bard levels also means that not only is it quite the duelist, but it also brings the fun to party play!

I would not classify the build as a ‘Spellsword’, as it does not cast high level Arcane spells such as Mordenkainen’s Disjunction or IGMS. It does however have a lot of self-buffs and debuffs that can make playing it ‘feel’ like playing a Spellsword, especially if one has lots of scrolls and wands at their disposal as well.

The build is not without its’ problems however; it has some clearly defined weaknesses in PvP [which I’ll leave for the reader to figure out :P ], and is hungry for Ability and Perform Boosting gear [which can make it difficult to play in very low magic environments]. That said! If one can utilise all of the tools that the build has to offer, it can potentially go toe to toe with any other melee PvP build, and sometimes give casters a hard time as well. The build can do an awful lot of things, and has an awful lot of strengths, that may not be evident upon first glance.

I hope to describe some of the build’s strengths in this post, without giving too much away about the server specifics. I am happy to edit it if people feel that too much has been revealed.

So without further ado, here is my version of the build, with some Blackstone-tweaked feats and skills:

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Bard(26), Blackguard(4), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Human

Alignment: EEEEEEEVIL!


STR: 16 (34)
DEX: 8
CON: 12 (14)
WIS: 8
INT: 14 (16)
CHA: 16 (18)


Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Bard(1): Power Attack, Cleave
02: Bard(2)
03: Bard(3): Curse Song
04: Bard(4): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Bard(5)
06: Bard(6): Knockdown*
07: Bard(7)
08: Bard(8): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Blackguard(1): Weapon Focus**
10: Red Dragon Disciple(1)
11: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=20)
12: Red Dragon Disciple(3): STR+1, Improved Critical**, (STR=21)
13: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good}
14: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=23)
15: Blackguard(3): Divine Might
16: Red Dragon Disciple(5): STR+1, (STR=24)
17: Red Dragon Disciple(6)
18: Blackguard(4): Divine Shield
19: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14)
20: Red Dragon Disciple(8): STR+1, (STR=25)
21: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Epic Weapon Focus**, (INT=16)
22: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Darkvision}, (STR=29), (CHA=18)
23: Bard(9)
24: Bard(10): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=30)
25: Bard(11)
26: Bard(12)
27: Bard(13): Still Spell
28: Bard(14): STR+1, (STR=31)
29: Bard(15)
30: Bard(16): Blind Fight
31: Bard(17)
32: Bard(18): STR+1, (STR=32)
33: Bard(19): Armor Skin*
34: Bard(20)
35: Bard(21)
36: Bard(22): STR+1, Expertise*, (STR=33)
37: Bard(23): Lasting Inspiration
38: Bard(24)
39: Bard(25): Improved Expertise*
40: Bard(26): STR+1, Epic Skill Focus: Perform, (STR=34)


*In a Vanilla Devastating Critical environment, these 4 feats [KD, Armour Skin, Expertise, Improved Expertise] have historically been replaced with: Great Cleave, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Fortitude.

** Any Simple or Martial Weapon can be taken here. For Blackstone, good choices would be a High Crit Chance weapon [e.g. Rapier], or a Bludgeoning Damage weapon for Palemasters [e.g. Morningstar].


Hitpoints: 360
Skillpoints: 292
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 28/26/22
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 26 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 23/34
Spell Casting: Bard(6)
Alignment Changes: 0


Skills:

Discipline 43(55), *Heal 30(31), Hide 5(4), Listen 43(42), Lore 8(37), Perform 43(57), *Spellcraft 22(25), Taunt 43(47), Tumble 40(39), *UMD 15(19).

*Heal, Spellcraft and UMD can be taken in differing amounts. Keep in mind that maxed out Bard Song [26 Bard and 80 Perform] increases all skills by 15. Heal can even be replaced by another skill potentially.

Focus on Hide, Listen, Lore, Perform, Taunt, Tumble and UMD early. Take pretty much all skill points on Bard levels.

Recommended Bard Spells at level 40 [not necessarily taken in this order]:

Level 1: Mage Armour, Protection from Alignment, Identify, *Amplify, *Grease.
Level 2: Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Splendour, *Darkness, Ultravision, *Silence. Can replace Bull’s Strength with See Invisibility if desired.
Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon, *Displacement, *Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, *Gust of Wind, *Wounding Whispers.
Level 4: *Improved Invisibility, *War Cry, Neutralise Poison, Cure Critical Wounds, 1 other [doesn’t matter which].
Level 5: *Greater Dispelling, Ethereal Visage, 3 others.
Level 6: Energy Buffer, 4 others.


*Spells that would typically be cast in a combat situation moreso than the others. All require Still Spell except for Darkness, which can be cast without Armour Penalty.

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Play Tips:

- Strip Armour/Shield to self-buff [Ability Boosting, Ultravision and Concealment being the key buffs], re-equip Armour/Shield once finished buffing.
- Swap out Gloves for Epic Perform Gloves when initially singing [boosts Perform from 63 to 93]. Cursing can be performed without Perform Gloves on if the build has already sung [song boosts Perform from 63 to 78, which is enough to get -6AC from song].
- Still Spell is great for Short-term buffs. Use it well.
- UMD is terrific for Scrolls and Wands. With Song, the build should easily exceed the 35 UMD necessary to use high level Arcane Scrolls.
- General Combo: Short Term Buff, Dispel Item [optional], Curse, Taunt, Bash. Improved Expertise is useful sometimes as well.
- If you’re fighting another Bard: Only 1 Curse Song can be active at a time on either of you. Either use it defensively before getting into range of your opponent to prevent getting cursed, or land your one first. Preferably the latter!
- Leading on from all of the above points: You will most likely need to put some gear, feats and abilities on some of your quickslots, and some are going to need to be of more immediate/frequent need than others. So: MAKE GOOD USE OF YOUR QUICKSLOTS! My version of this build currently uses all 36 of them, and could maybe use a few more.


Important Stats:


Attack Bonus: 68 with a +20 Weapon. Curse Song and Taunt both lower an opponents’ AC by 6 each, which means combined this amounts to 80 effective Attack Bonus with both of these debuffs active.

Armour Class: 12 [Base + armour skin] + 9 [fp + dex] + 9 [Tower +6, 30 running total] + 18 Nat/Ac/Def [48 running total] + 8 Tumble [56] + 4 RDD [60] + 20 Dodge [1 MA, 6 Boots, 4 Haste, 6 Song, 3/10 from Divine Shield] = 80 AC, 82 effectively with Curse, 92 AC effectively with Improved Expertise.

Saves: Base Fortitude/Will/Reflex is 28/26/22. +6 to all saves with Maxed Charisma [30 buffed], +8 to saves vs Spells with 40 Spellcraft [requires song to be active].

Notable Skills with Song/Curse/Buffs: 76 Discipline with Maxed Strength, 68 Taunt with Maxed Charisma [82 effective with Curse], 87 Listen with Amplify and Clair, 92 with additional equipment [101/106 effectively with Curse].

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Aaand there you have it. Any questions, feel free to ask. Hopefully this post inspires some other PvP builds and ideas, even if it is at the cost of revealing some secrets about this one.
Last edited by The Flying Rodent on Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by Julian »

Isn't the song nerfed here to +10 to skills max because of *reasons* ?
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by The Flying Rodent »

To my knowledge , it is only Crafting skills that are nerfed via Bardsong, and all other skill boosts work as normal. This was done to prevent ‘unspecialised’ (I.e low intelligence) ~Level 30 Bards from becoming Master Crafters, which driller felt had cheesed the system.
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by Terankar »

"Bardasssword"*.
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by balduras »

A few quesitons here.

Why Listen? Is see invi and blind fight not enough?
Also, not very keen on Taunt. The way it works, making chance for opportunity attack is just wrong. Can this build live without it?

What gear would you recommend for this build. Especially the belt-gloves-cloak combination.

How much of a difference to -AC from curs song will be from perform 63, not 78.

And how much of UMD for using class-locked items (paladin like shields etc.)

Great build, the AC is impressive and AB, even it will take some time to get that +20 wep and all it will be worth it. I'll definitely make one myself.
Thanks!
Terankar wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 pm "Bardasssword"*.
I'd go for Bardpier ;)
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by The Flying Rodent »

balduras wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:23 am A few quesitons here.

Why Listen? Is see invi and blind fight not enough?
Also, not very keen on Taunt. The way it works, making chance for opportunity attack is just wrong. Can this build live without it?

What gear would you recommend for this build. Especially the belt-gloves-cloak combination.

How much of a difference to -AC from curs song will be from perform 63, not 78.

And how much of UMD for using class-locked items (paladin like shields etc.)

Great build, the AC is impressive and AB, even it will take some time to get that +20 wep and all it will be worth it. I'll definitely make one myself.
Thanks!
Terankar wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 pm "Bardasssword"*.
I'd go for Bardpier ;)
Listen is for detecting stealthed targets. Move Silently is typically harder to buff than Hide is [which is what is checked against Listen], and Listen is pretty easy to buff for a Bard [Amplify + Clairaudience/voyance gives +30 before song and items]. See Invis helps of course against invisible targets [which you can get in wand form, hence why I skipped it], and Blind Fight is helpful against concealed targets. But neither help against sneak builds.

Taunt is not something to be used on every single opponent; I wouldn't bother using it against a high AB strength WM for example, as this just opens the build up to getting smack-downed. But it IS a very useful ability to use against defensive builds [such as Melee PM's], which may be worth sacrificing a few free hits to get 30 seconds of effectively +6 AB . It's also useful against mages [30% Spell Failure], but then so is Silence, which is generally the preferred option vs them.

AC from song/curse increases from +5 to +6 at 75 perform and 25 bard levels. There's also skill points gained from higher perform, but it's the extra AC point that's nice to have on the curse. Every little bit counts!

Without spoiling too much about what items are available in game, I prioritised buffing Strength, Constitution and Charisma. There are Belt, Gloves and Cloak that can help in this department.

35 UMD is generally the gold standard, as this allows builds to use high level arcane scrolls without failing a skill check [25 + caster level, so max dc 34], and 'should' be enough to use just about any class/race/alignment restricted item. This build should manage 35 UMD with song + Charisma buff.



And yeah, it's a fun build with pretty impressive all round stats [hence why I've made it on many servers lol]. Lots of synergy between the classes and tools/abilities to play with. It does require a fair bit of equipment to make use of all of them, but IMO it's worth decking out. :)
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by balduras »

Thx Rodent.

Btw. what is the deal with dev critics here? I can't find any info, but heard from people it has been nerfed?
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by driller »

It is under Server Information.

viewtopic.php?p=2398#p2398
balduras wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:56 pm Thx Rodent.

Btw. what is the deal with dev critics here? I can't find any info, but heard from people it has been nerfed?
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by sergeil »

It would be great to have sequence of skills progress too. In fact, it is not easy to reproduce build exactly.

Can anybody explain what advantage to receive 26 levels of bard instead of 22?

In fact, bard level 22 has all key features and difference beteeen 22 and 26 is only 8 THP, 1AC, 4 Skills. Also, level 22 require 80 performance instead of 60.

Maybe, it is better to invest 4 levels to another class and transform 26-4-10 to 22-8-10 or 22-4-14. Or, maybe, it is not bad idea to receive 4 levels of fighter. For human it should be no penalties for multi-classing.
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Re: PvP Melee Build - Bard 26 / Blackguard 4 / RDD 10

Post by Mask-inc »

PvP builds need all those little advantages that they can get.
lev26 for bard to get bonus feats for one, also most spell effects top at around that lev and bard song and curse song are better.
compare to just getting 2 ac by taking more RDD levels or pretty much nothing from taking more blackguard levels, why you end up with those specs, a melee bard that is more effective than a lot of fighter classes builds.


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