Umgah Mages and Epic Mage Armor

[Yunim]

Now that Umgah Mages have permahaste their base AC is 90. This is already fairly tough to hit, but a dedicated DPS build can kill them in one or two hits due to their low HP so it isn't really an issue. However when they use Epic Mage Armor they can raise their AC to the point that non-casters are stuck fishing for 20s.

Epic Mage Armor stacks randomly with Umgah Mages. Sometimes it doesn't increase their AC at all, sometimes they get the full +20 bonus, sometimes they get +5, +10, or +15.
If it doesn't stack then they effectively waste a few seconds, if it does stack they become near unhittable.

That's why I suggest removing Epic Mage Armor from Umgah Mages. Everything else about them (including the epic spell spam) doesn't need changing in my opinion.

[Cornflower]

In the long dead past, I ran a PW. We had the same problem, that certain builds could kill everything in an area without braking a sweat, whereas other got one-shotted by the monsters because they lacked the perfect build for the occasion or the optimum gear needed. We decided that there was two ways to go: a) make something so hard to kill it was impossible for 90% of the players, but it was still fairly easy for the other 10%, or b) make it a challenge for the majority and let those with perfect builds have it too easy.

Basically, we said: This world is set up so if you're a character, especially built to survive tough fights and built with some skill (i.e. some kind of optimisation), you will have the right to be bored, but any character should have the possibility to survive an encounter if he/she doesn't do anything stupid.

I just offer this as an example on another alternative.

[Kalaron]

About this topic, i find it as a good idea to find mobs that get some kind of inmuty to sources of damages (physcal, magical) and so force to player to cooperate with diferent clases.

If you could make a scrip that take count of the type of damage they are taking, and beyong some treshhold get inmunities to that type of damage source. This way you force player to make balanced team (tanks / healer / Phy dps / Magic dps). Per example, if more than 60% damage is physical it will become imune to it and so nyou need to finish it off with some magic; if get more than 60% of magic damage it will get Inumity to magic damage and so. Of corse, must have some minor resistances so the small elemental damage all weapon adds doestnt count. Or put some 30/- emelental resistance to avoid cheating this.

This way, you can solve the issue of few players soloing stuff they shouldn't, and open room on party to diversity clases.

i don't know if it is posible to script tho, but what do you thing?

[driller]

This is possible, it is what the Sentients in Warframe are like.

[Sorcy Sid]

This is a classic example as to why there's a lot of player frustration with all the item nerfing. We watch and talk to other players in order to learn how to defeat a monster and then halfway upon completing our new toon the rules have changed!

It's why I suggest new areas with new monsters. That way you are not changing the rules. You are just expanding the game.

I love Kalaron's idea. Just apply it to a new expansion instead of an existing one.

About this topic, i find it as a good idea to find mobs that get some kind of inmuty to sources of damages (physcal, magical) and so force to player to cooperate with diferent clases.

If you could make a scrip that take count of the type of damage they are taking, and beyong some treshhold get inmunities to that type of damage source. This way you force player to make balanced team (tanks / healer / Phy dps / Magic dps). Per example, if more than 60% damage is physical it will become imune to it and so nyou need to finish it off with some magic; if get more than 60% of magic damage it will get Inumity to magic damage and so. Of corse, must have some minor resistances so the small elemental damage all weapon adds doestnt count. Or put some 30/- emelental resistance to avoid cheating this.

This way, you can solve the issue of few players soloing stuff they shouldn't, and open room on party to diversity clases.

i don't know if it is posible to script tho, but what do you thing?

[driller]

The nerfs targeted very specific items that where being abused and nerfed with good reason.

Doves Harp = Players had literally pages of these in their inventory allowing themselves to have for all intents and purposes unlimited restoration and heals.
Ring of Nine Lives = This ring could be charged up to give up to 250 heals. Stupid.
AC over +6 = Characters with AC over 100 that where virtually un-hittable.
Damage immunities over 25%. Stacked immunities along with DR where allowing players to not take any damage at all to multiple types.

I don't know everything, nor can eye keep an eye on everything. That's why I rely on DMs and players to let me know what's going on.

When people make disingenuous posts, it doesn't help.

This is a classic example as to why there's a lot of player frustration with all the item nerfing. We watch and talk to other players in order to learn how to defeat a monster and then halfway upon completing our new toon the rules have changed!

It's why I suggest new areas with new monsters. That way you are not changing the rules. You are just expanding the game.

I love Kalaron's idea. Just apply it to a new expansion instead of an existing one.

About this topic, i find it as a good idea to find mobs that get some kind of inmuty to sources of damages (physcal, magical) and so force to player to cooperate with diferent clases.

If you could make a scrip that take count of the type of damage they are taking, and beyong some treshhold get inmunities to that type of damage source. This way you force player to make balanced team (tanks / healer / Phy dps / Magic dps). Per example, if more than 60% damage is physical it will become imune to it and so nyou need to finish it off with some magic; if get more than 60% of magic damage it will get Inumity to magic damage and so. Of corse, must have some minor resistances so the small elemental damage all weapon adds doestnt count. Or put some 30/- emelental resistance to avoid cheating this.

This way, you can solve the issue of few players soloing stuff they shouldn't, and open room on party to diversity clases.

i don't know if it is posible to script tho, but what do you thing?

[Kane0]

Unrelated question, but is there a non-cheesy way my higher level characters can heal a good chunk without needing a party member? Pots and heal kits are outpaced by damage taken per round after a certain point.

[The Flying Rodent]

Unrelated question, but is there a non-cheesy way my higher level characters can heal a good chunk without needing a party member? Pots and heal kits are outpaced by damage taken per round after a certain point.

Greater Restoration scrolls. These are quite expensive when purchased en masse however, so it’s defintely still worthwhile using Heal kits to heal damage out of combat.

[Sorcy Sid]

I am being very sincere. I am trying to point out the side of many players and simply suggesting that expanding the challenges, which you have done wonderfully already in many areas, would have little to no negative reactions compared to nerfing things so they behave completely different from other servers.


> > "Doves Harp = Players had literally pages of these in their inventory allowing themselves to have for all intents and purposes unlimited restoration and heals."

I have yet to find one so I wont comment on that.

> > "Ring of Nine Lives = This ring could be charged up to give up to 250 heals. Stupid."

I agree with you on that amount. Although I would probably have set the limit back down to nine since it is such a desirable item to have. Many other items can not be charged so high.

> > "AC over +6 = Characters with AC over 100 that where virtually un-hittable.
Damage immunities over 25%. Stacked immunities along with DR where allowing players to not take any damage at all to multiple types."

I think that's a perfectly good reason for caps, when you want to foster party play. I also think many of your new areas do a wonderful job of creating a demand for cooperative play.

>>"I don't know everything, nor can eye keep an eye on everything. That's why I rely on DMs and players to let me know what's going on."

I understand your position. I am just trying to suggest what I think is a more positive way to get what you want while also building a better mousetrap. Making things behave completely different from other servers just makes for negatives compared to a server that could be viewed as unlimited in it's challenges and build possibilities.

I dont think any of us that take the time to post are ungrateful for the work you put into this game. Thank you for all of your effort.

[Kalaron]

Was thinking as well, if that script could be implemented, it could change other stuff like:

- no need uber AC bosses since they wont die only from physical anymore.
- no need to be inmune to sneak attacks / criticals to avoid abuse /(since again, it wont die from physycal).
- no need to be inmune to all kind of magic, like timestops and stuff (since it wont die from magic damage alone).
- can replace all that with MORE HP, so all party members get the feeling of acomplish something on the boss and have fun fighintg the boss.

Mobs can still have AC, DR, Spell resistance and all those buff, taking in mind in numbers that the most clases can beat if they have the gear for it (and not the class for it). will take longer to kill for few clases than other, but still will be able to beat it if they push it as a TEAM.

This open a big way of making new bosses, like bosses inmune to all physcal damage, bosses inmune to magic, bosses with BIG regen; new mechanics that add small minions with this kind of properties, and so on.

Players should focus on geting all the roles they need (tank/healer / Phy Dps / Mag dep / and the other slot are free for any). This will change the way of player will aproach the fight. There will be still jobs that outshines others, but those jobs won't be the ONLY ones to fight the boss anymore.

I beleive it will change the way of playing and will be on the next level and at the same time will encourage to make new builds, and help the comunity to join forces to fight a Boss that all can help to kill it. The only concer will be to have a really good Tank tho, i think we can live with that.

Cya.

PD: Sorry, bad english.

[driller]

This is basically already being done with high level bosses. There is a limit to how many hitpoints a creature can have, so I limit damage programmatically, this allows me to set their health to whatever I want and not have to use the limited hard coded damage immunities.

Players who have fought Shalnath probably have already realized this.

Was thinking as well, if that script could be implemented, it could change other stuff like:

- no need uber AC bosses since they wont die only from physical anymore.
- no need to be inmune to sneak attacks / criticals to avoid abuse /(since again, it wont die from physycal).
- no need to be inmune to all kind of magic, like timestops and stuff (since it wont die from magic damage alone).
- can replace all that with MORE HP, so all party members get the feeling of acomplish something on the boss and have fun fighintg the boss.

Mobs can still have AC, DR, Spell resistance and all those buff, taking in mind in numbers that the most clases can beat if they have the gear for it (and not the class for it). will take longer to kill for few clases than other, but still will be able to beat it if they push it as a TEAM.

This open a big way of making new bosses, like bosses inmune to all physcal damage, bosses inmune to magic, bosses with BIG regen; new mechanics that add small minions with this kind of properties, and so on.

Players should focus on geting all the roles they need (tank/healer / Phy Dps / Mag dep / and the other slot are free for any). This will change the way of player will aproach the fight. There will be still jobs that outshines others, but those jobs won't be the ONLY ones to fight the boss anymore.

I beleive it will change the way of playing and will be on the next level and at the same time will encourage to make new builds, and help the comunity to join forces to fight a Boss that all can help to kill it. The only concer will be to have a really good Tank tho, i think we can live with that.

Cya.

PD: Sorry, bad english.