Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

General Discussion is for anything related to Blackstone not covered in the other forums.
User avatar
driller
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:52 am
Contact:

Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by driller »

I'm sure this will be a healthy topic, but, I am thinking of adjusting certain items.

Let me hear your thoughts/ideals on this.

There will be no more 100% damage immunity items. Items that have 100%, will be adjusted to 25%.
Items like the Ring of Nine Lives/Dove Harp which negate an entire class(Cleric) will be adjusted.
Any item with regeneration greater than +1 will be reduced. I.E. Crown of Thorns.
Items with DR greater than 15 will be reduced.
AC will be capped at +6 for all items.

I did this on the old Blackstone and it worked out well. I had just had forgotten all this when I moved it over to EE.

I want to do this to reduce some cheesiness that's going on and balance out a few things.

Certain mobs would be nerfed to reflect this new reality.
User avatar
Cornflower
Duke
Duke
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 10:53 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Cornflower »

In general, if you nerf items, the classes and builds will be more important. This must be a good thing. I think the key is "Certain mobs would be nerfed to reflect this new reality.". Today, many end-game quests/areas are impossible to solo anyway, so it will be even more difficult now. It will be important to not mess up the balance too much.

If you put more focus on class/ability than items, perhaps look at the bosses too? Today you have a situation where you HAVE to have a Dwarven Defender AND a Weaponmaster (excepting some mage builds and possibly AA) in order to kill the end-game bosses. It would be nice if other builds could be feasible. One way of doing that is making soak viable again. I don't know what guys like Tar Valon gets his 101 AB from, but if he has a +30 weapon, it would perhaps be better to give him 20 more BAB and reduce his weapons to +10, so we have a use for soak again. Today, soak is mostly useless since every opponent slices through it. If you reduce damage immunities, nerf Ring of Lives, reduce regen, then perhaps make soak interesting again? (Reservations for not knowing how you got those uber-values on AB/AC to the bosses.)

If you cap AC to +6, this means you can't find anything better than you can Forge. This means that Forging will be even more important than today. I don't know if this is what you want, just pointing it out.

Also, if you want to make class/abilities even more important, you could re-design the random remover-thingy so it can't remove limitations from items. (Oh, the other players are going to kill me for mentioning this.... I need to change my name and move to a new city.)

Finally, I'm not sure at all that this will reduce some cheesiness. It might even increase it a lot. Depending of course on what you mean by cheesiness... I also think it will move the balance even further from players to bosses than it already is (according to my definition of balance, that all quests should be possible to finish solo). If you want to reduce the cheesy (according to my definition of cheesiness) builds, set a rule that you need to take 4 levels of each class.

Still, I think it's a good thing as long as you nerf some mobs and re-introduce soak.

Also, all this is just my opinion, I'm totally aware that this is your world. I only play in it.
Who wills, can
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Terankar
Knight
Knight
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Terankar »

I would suggest removing +20 AB on gems and instead output a max of +10 enhancement bonus from crafting. Maybe let there be drops of +15 AB, but +20 ab really doesn't do much for the balance of AC at +6.

I would also change All the Bigby spells to appropiate saves of fort/ref/will.
User avatar
driller
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:52 am
Contact:

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by driller »

This would make it worse. The balance curve of AB vs AC is highly in AC's favor.
Terankar wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:47 am I would suggest removing +20 AB on gems and instead output a max of +10 enhancement bonus from crafting. Maybe let there be drops of +15 AB, but +20 ab really doesn't do much for the balance of AC at +6.

I would also change All the Bigby spells to appropiate saves of fort/ref/will.
User avatar
driller
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:52 am
Contact:

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by driller »

1.In reality, we are talking about very few items here. This is mainly only going to affect certain endgame aspects. A Cleric will be much more important to have.
2.He doesn't have a +30 weapon, +20 is an engine limit. Bosses would be adjusted. Balancing items makes it easier to balance out the mobs. I would prefer that players need another player, not a specialty item that takes the place of a class.
3.That is the intent.
4.I will.
5.Solo? With what character? A Harper scout? IMHO, this just isn't possible. This is an online server, you play with other people. You need other people, making endgame bosses weak so that a player can solo it would be very boring.
6.Being immune to damage. Unable to be hit. Using an item that negates a class.
Cornflower wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:04 am In general, if you nerf items, the classes and builds will be more important. This must be a good thing. I think the key is "Certain mobs would be nerfed to reflect this new reality.". Today, many end-game quests/areas are impossible to solo anyway, so it will be even more difficult now. It will be important to not mess up the balance too much.

If you put more focus on class/ability than items, perhaps look at the bosses too? Today you have a situation where you HAVE to have a Dwarven Defender AND a Weaponmaster (excepting some mage builds and possibly AA) in order to kill the end-game bosses. It would be nice if other builds could be feasible. One way of doing that is making soak viable again. I don't know what guys like Tar Valon gets his 101 AB from, but if he has a +30 weapon, it would perhaps be better to give him 20 more BAB and reduce his weapons to +10, so we have a use for soak again. Today, soak is mostly useless since every opponent slices through it. If you reduce damage immunities, nerf Ring of Lives, reduce regen, then perhaps make soak interesting again? (Reservations for not knowing how you got those uber-values on AB/AC to the bosses.)

If you cap AC to +6, this means you can't find anything better than you can Forge. This means that Forging will be even more important than today. I don't know if this is what you want, just pointing it out.

Also, if you want to make class/abilities even more important, you could re-design the random remover-thingy so it can't remove limitations from items. (Oh, the other players are going to kill me for mentioning this.... I need to change my name and move to a new city.)

Finally, I'm not sure at all that this will reduce some cheesiness. It might even increase it a lot. Depending of course on what you mean by cheesiness... I also think it will move the balance even further from players to bosses than it already is (according to my definition of balance, that all quests should be possible to finish solo). If you want to reduce the cheesy (according to my definition of cheesiness) builds, set a rule that you need to take 4 levels of each class.

Still, I think it's a good thing as long as you nerf some mobs and re-introduce soak.

Also, all this is just my opinion, I'm totally aware that this is your world. I only play in it.
User avatar
Pretty Fly White Guy
Duke
Duke
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Pretty Fly White Guy »

+20 AB / +6 AC has been shown since the early days of BSK to be very balanced for PvP. PvE Currently seems very well balanced with regards to gear. AC items have crept up a little bit since then, so maybe the balance for PvP is slightly in favour of AC again, although it seems largely roll-based.

I'm currently playing a 10 ftr / 30 DWD (I don't like cheesy builds with <5 levels in any class) and his defensive stats are as follows:

Damage Immunity - 25% vs all physical, each type on a different piece of armour so I can't stack them.
Damage Reduction - 30 vs all physical
Damage Resist - 15/- vs all physical
Elemental resist - 10/- from items, 10/- from investing 5 epic feats
Pos/Neg/Div etc - 10/- from items.
Regeneration - ~8 from items + 6 vampiric regen

He takes 0 physical damage from almost everything, with the exception of mobs in areas that are clearly not meant to be soloed. He takes negligible damage from non-spell elemental damage (20/- resist means max 1-4 damage from a 2d12 weapon) and takes a big chunk off the Neg/divine/positive damages. The hardest I have been hit by an attack is ~60, which to me is very reasonable. The only stat that falls outside of the parameters Driller has suggested is the regeneration, although I would be able to reach that by individually forging it onto all of my items. I feel like I am a quintessential tank, and I feel like it's working as intended.

I haven't seen Ring of Nine Lives / Dove Harp so can't comment on what they do.

I don't think that mandating certain classes be required for end-game content to be a bad thing. I would only consider it bad if my 30 dwd levels were required, but someone with a different build with perhaps 22 DWD levels were to be unable to compete, which in general is not true. If they sacrifice DR, they can open up things like UMD for all the scrolls and wands, giving much more utility.

Perhaps the player base needs to recognise (not saying this is true, just a lot of recent posts sound like it) that you can't just build a STR based cleric and curbstomp everything. When players complain that their 16 pre-epic BAB monk can't hit anything, they neglect the fact that they have more than double the chance to roll a 20 vs my DWD (4 attacks per round vs 10), higher AC, better access to multiclassing and items and that those perks need to have a price. The same goes for almost everything. There isn't a single build that can do it all, and that's how it should be.

Perhaps the only thing I would like is some form of harm immunity, since it's so ubiquitous and a lot of the mobs that use it can also dispel the obvious counters to it from potions and scrolls. Although this could just be me wanting my character to be able to do everything.

TLDR: My characters fall within the proposed parameters of Driller's suggestions already and I don't feel underwhelmed. I feel like an appropriate cog in the machine. Harm immunity would be nice though.
User avatar
Jake_Master
Count
Count
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:25 am

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Jake_Master »

I think a nerf like this will only increase the cheese. Most melee builds and even casters are forced to rely on taking at least one class of bard, rogue, or Assassin to get UMD to survive, especially at lvl 30+

Ring of nine lives, dove harp allow people to make pure builds without being forced to take a UMD based class which IMO is being forced to build cheese, but there isn’t much of a choice in the matter... there is little to no pure builds on BSK because of UMD based classes needed.

Also, further nerfs will only force people to build more cheese, I have a bard/ bg/ rdd which some may consider cheese, he has 80 AC and fully forged, if I get swarmed in umgahs I am forced to heal, run, etc... so if that can’t survive you will see more cheese being made to be able to, I anticipate a ton of bard / PM/ rdd mixes which just isn’t fun.. if anything give better items out there that are only useable by certain classes to fill the gap for monks, and barbarians, and COT, etc...that give them the ability to heal or use NEP without taking a UMD based class. I understand wanting to reduce the cheese but I just see something like this further increasing it
Captain Andrick Korningstone, Arms Master Los Illuminados Alianza

Troy Korningstone
Andrin StoneBender, Master Crafter
Kurt Addams
Terankar
Knight
Knight
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Terankar »

I second the fact that class diversity should be a thing. I just do not see a multitude of rogues +13, pure druids, champion of torm +20, blackguards+20, assassins +20, palemasters+20, barbarians+20, rangers +20, monks +20. the list goes on. I get that some classes have begger uses, but the server is quintessentially a mix of three types of classes: cleric, fighter, arcane caster, dwarven defender.

there is very little difference and the endgamd demands such niche specific builds from my understanding except if you are cleric, wizard, sorc or bard a your main class.

I personally like an old server, higher grounds. they havde made every single class viable to their respective role.

This might be a bit of a ranty post but that is how i currently see, a month into the server.
User avatar
The Flying Rodent
Count
Count
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:09 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by The Flying Rodent »

driller wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:16 am I'm sure this will be a healthy topic ...
Driller braces for impact ... :lol:

It's interesting reading the responses so far. Hopefully not too many spoilers have been revealed about in-game specifics. I suppose this is the sort of thread where in-game specifics are going to be listed though, so without trying to spoil too much, here are my thoughts on the 5 proposed changes.

Long post incoming! [and the odd edit to fix mistakes...]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. AFAIK, there is only 1 item with 100% damage immunity on it [to a particular element], and it is basically a PVP item. Removing this will I suppose at least make said element useful for mages in PvP, though builds with Evasion are probably not going to notice anything when fighting opponent mages.

2. [semi spoiler time] The ring. I mentioned this in the pve player discord, and it feels appropriate to mention it here as well.

Currently, with regards to top-end Blackstone PvM, there are 3 classes of build: Melee Tank, Melee DPS, and 'everything else'. Out of the 'everything else' category, clerics and mages are the most useful as they can provide utility to a large party in the form of buffs and heals. And then unfortunately, for high end PvM at least, the rest of the game's classes and builds are inefficient or useless, some worse than others.

Removing or nerfing the Nine Lives Ring will most likely introduce a 3rd high-end build category along with Melee Tank and Melee DPS: Healer [i.e. Cleric or Cleric/Druid]. At present, a Melee tank [like the afore mentioned Fighter DD with tons of resistance gear], can just use a Nine Lives ring to stay afloat indefinitely when fighting top level opponents. I'm surprised that this safety remained for them after the Dove's Harp nerf.

So: Tank, DPS and 'everything else' to Tank, DPS, Healer and 'everything else'. I like the idea behind it, but I can see a lot of cranky people as a result of this change.

3. I can see a few people getting cranky over this change as well, but not as many. Even with the nerf, Crown of Thorns will still be a very useful tank item for its' resistances, and will force people to attach more regeneration stones to their items.

4. I'm assuming that DR in this context means Damage Resistance. If so, this would effect elemental resistance items the most, and in a similar vein to the 100% damage immunity item change, make it easier for Mages in PvP. Outside of this I cannot see it effecting much.

5. At present, the only items that are over +6 ac from what I can gather are +7 armours and tower shields. That's 2 AC points in total, and builds typically use crafted +6 armour anyway for the damage immunity [so it's really only 1 AC point].

At present, I quite like using +7 tower shields instead of forged/+6 ones, but TBH I wouldn't really care too much if I were forced to lose an AC point over it. Sword and Board builds are typically stronger than Duel Wielders or Two handed in PVP, so I suppose this change is a 'teeny' nerf to shield users and a 'teeny' respective buff to two handers and duel wielders in PvP.

I think this one will make more people cranky than happy, but I don't mind either way what happens here, as it probably won't amount to much.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There's also been a fair bit of side-comment on the ideals of 'what classes should succeed on the server and in what way' , brought about by the item nerfs that tend to target specific classes. I actually think most of the changes besides the ring are PvP related rather than PvM related, but regardless, here are some of my thoughts on some of the comments.
Cornflower wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:04 am
If you put more focus on class/ability than items, perhaps look at the bosses too? Today you have a situation where you HAVE to have a Dwarven Defender AND a Weaponmaster (excepting some mage builds and possibly AA) in order to kill the end-game bosses. It would be nice if other builds could be feasible. One way of doing that is making soak viable again.
As I mentioned earlier, high end PvM is unfortunately just Tank/DPS/'everything else' , and at the very least the ring nerf/removal may bring about Tank/DPS/Healer/'everything else' . But ... this is just a manifestation of what happens when you make raid-boss level monsters in the toolset and ask players to kill them.

Because the stats of these creatures are so extreme [We're talking +20 weapons, 100 strength (can't go over because of an encumbrance bug), 100-255 constitution, and 60-120 characters levels, which results in monsters with 100+ AB and 10,000+ HP] , things are reduced down the the most simple elements: A character to bear the brunt of the boss' melee attacks [i.e a Tank], and characters around it to deal damage on the flanks [i.e. Melee DPS]. Add a Healer to the mix if healing equipment is scarce, and if not, a Tank can just rely on healing items [like they do now with the Ring and previously Dove's Harps].

Unfortunately, there isn't very much that can be done to make other classes in the 'everything else' category viable without directly buffing the classes in some way, and even then that might not be effective for high-end PvM. Spellcasters tend to struggle in high end PvM because they have only a finite amount of spells that have to get through a boss monsters' super high HP, so they just tend to run out of juice compared to melee DPS. Then you have a bunch of classes with abilities that work within certain niches [Assassin Death attack, any spell with a DC attached, Barbarians with Rage, even Bard Song / Taunt to an extent], but once you start dealing with ridiculous numbers like saves and discipline/concentration skills in the 100's, these abilities and their attached classes become almost worthless.

Anyway: I feel like this wasn't meant to be the focus of the discussion anyway, but again, as some of the item nerfs tended to target specific classes, this became an inevitability I guess and people see an opportunity to suggest class balance changes. I'd personally leave these for another thread, as they'll most likely drown out the conversation heh.

As for Soak: I feel like this is still most certainly viable, at least in comparison to making a pure AC build. There are of course mobs that deal lots of hard-to-resist damage like Magical and Divine. I guess to stay in line with the regen changes , these could be toned down a bit.
Also, if you want to make class/abilities even more important, you could re-design the random remover-thingy so it can't remove limitations from items. (Oh, the other players are going to kill me for mentioning this.... I need to change my name and move to a new city.)
driller wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am4.I will.
As Jakemaster said, most high level builds have UMD in the mix for magic items. But there are some builds, like Barbarian/Fighter/Monk focused builds, already that are usually not very optimised for PvP or PvM, that do not. Removing the Item Property remover is only going to hurt these classes and force everybody to use UMD. That's it. It's not going to increase class diversity; it's going to decrease it. So I oppose this change for this reason.
Pretty Fly White Guy wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:21 am
*lots of numbers*

The hardest I have been hit by an attack is ~60, which to me is very reasonable. The only stat that falls outside of the parameters Driller has suggested is the regeneration, although I would be able to reach that by individually forging it onto all of my items. I feel like I am a quintessential tank, and I feel like it's working as intended.
May I suggest trying to seek out and fight the Astral Witch if you're after a challenge then. 8)

Terankar wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm I second the fact that class diversity should be a thing. I just do not see a multitude of rogues +13, pure druids, champion of torm +20, blackguards+20, assassins +20, palemasters+20, barbarians+20, rangers +20, monks +20. the list goes on. I get that some classes have begger uses, but the server is quintessentially a mix of three types of classes: cleric, fighter, arcane caster, dwarven defender.

there is very little difference and the endgamd demands such niche specific builds from my understanding except if you are cleric, wizard, sorc or bard a your main class.

I personally like an old server, higher grounds. they havde made every single class viable to their respective role.

This might be a bit of a ranty post but that is how i currently see, a month into the server.
See my response to Cornflower's quote. I don't think that much can be done about this sadly, besides buffing individual aspects of certain classes. Just the way that high level PvM monsters are designed and the resulting optimum approaches to killing them [which tbh is 'make use of an old game's ordinary AI'] makes the top-end PvM build scope extraordinarily narrow.
Last edited by The Flying Rodent on Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:15 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Kazrite Army Members:

Gladdis the Damned
Thanatos
User avatar
Wing--Zero
Duke
Duke
Posts: 234
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:43 am

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Wing--Zero »

I'll be the one to say it lol.........a ring that you can get 250 HEALS on (When charged its 9 to start with) is a little bit overpowered.....i'm sorry but, thats true. It turns every single class into a cleric it completly negates taking the class of bard or rogue(for UMD)........ and btw honestly Bard Rdd Pms CAN be beat and so can the Bard RDD Blackgaurd. Every build has a counter :) The Doveharp at least only had 1 use to it. :P I think all those changes would be really good idea!
Duo Maxwell
Auran Goodman
Damian Goodman
Daniel Goodman
Karn
Aye Spyu
Heia The Deamon
and some others :P
Log-ins: Zero, X, X_Mule, Z_mule
User avatar
The Flying Rodent
Count
Count
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:09 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by The Flying Rodent »

Wing--Zero wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:39 pm I'll be the one to say it lol.........a ring that you can get 250 HEALS on (When charged its 9 to start with) is a little bit overpowered.....i'm sorry but, thats true. It turns every single class into a cleric it completly negates taking the class of bard or rogue(for UMD)........ and btw honestly Bard Rdd Pms CAN be beat and so can the Bard RDD Blackgaurd. Every build has a counter :) The Doveharp at least only had 1 use to it. :P I think all those changes would be really good idea!
Yeah, but you could always do something like 'buy 30+ doves harps and shove them into bags' and have 30+ heals per day without much repercussion if you were a UMD user. I think that was moreso the problem lol.

And yeah, regarding PvP builds in NWN, pretty much everything has a counter, except maybe some flavours of mage. Hide in Plain Sight is pretty powerful here too, which helps against the many Bards and Palemasters floating around, and I suppose the mages to an extent. ;-)
Kazrite Army Members:

Gladdis the Damned
Thanatos
Yunim
Duke
Duke
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:49 pm

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Yunim »

driller wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:16 am Items like the Ring of Nine Lives/Dove Harp which negate an entire class(Cleric) will be adjusted.
Will the ring be nerfed in a similar fashion to the Dove's Harp with a certain probability of failure or will it be changed completely?
The Flying Rodent wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:39 pm As Jakemaster said, most high level builds have UMD in the mix for magic items. But there are some builds, like Barbarian/Fighter/Monk focused builds, already that are usually not very optimised for PvP or PvM, that do not. Removing the Item Property remover is only going to hurt these classes and force everybody to use UMD. That's it. It's not going to increase class diversity; it's going to decrease it. So I oppose this change for this reason.
I agree with The Flying Rodent with regards to the ripr change. Requiring all builds to have at least 1 level of a caster or UMD class in order to even survive high end dungeons only limits viable PvM builds further.

I don't have a problem with any of the other changes, they seem to be more about increasing caster PvP options rather than causing huge build-breaking changes.
Terankar
Knight
Knight
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Terankar »

But I have to ask, how will this change be introduced?

I know quite a few people that have 7 or 8 ac versions of an item and to me, a clear wipe of the server is imminent to enforce this change.

Is there a plan for implementatio already set?
Terankar
Knight
Knight
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by Terankar »

The Flying Rodent wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:39 pm
Terankar wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm I second the fact that class diversity should be a thing. I just do not see a multitude of rogues +13, pure druids, champion of torm +20, blackguards+20, assassins +20, [...]
See my response to Cornflower's quote. I don't think that much can be done about this sadly, besides buffing individual aspects of certain classes. Just the way that high level PvM monsters are designed and the resulting optimum approaches to killing them [which tbh is 'make use of an old game's ordinary AI'] makes the top-end PvM build scope extraordinarily narrow.
*Suits up in his forum warrior armor* BANKAI! :twisted:

So I have to disagree on this. There are many ways to empower other classes to perform at around the same level as the top tier does right now.

http://highergroundpoa.proboards.com/bo ... mizations

This is one example that I myself quite like.

A quick idea would be: Barbarian with more than 25 levels would get mighty rage to stack instead of being additive. Letting it go outside the normal cap of +12 to stats. that alone would make the class worth for a lot of people.

Also means we would see a lot of Jason Momoas :p

Also like give them a reckless bonus when wielding axes and blunt medium to large weapons: when wielding no more than medium armor and no shield, the Jason Momoa gets +3 to dmg rolls and - 1 to ab/ac.

Or let me take a Van Helsing approach: The undead hunter is a warrior cleric that dedicates his life to banishing the undead.
Requiremets: +13 str and cha. extra turning, great fortitude.

now this is where I would write a lot of bonuses, but you get r
the idea.

This to me is not very different from what is in the game with Bladecaster.

These I would suggest to be pure classes so ie. a cleric can only be undead hunter if he is a pure cleric.
User avatar
The Flying Rodent
Count
Count
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:09 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Item adjustments/removal thoughts.

Post by The Flying Rodent »

Terankar wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:06 am
The Flying Rodent wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:39 pm
I don't think that much can be done about this sadly, besides buffing individual aspects of certain classes.
*posts a link with a bajillion changes and buffs to certain classes*
I don't think you quite got my point, but I guess I didn't explain myself well lol.

All of the current changes that have been made here are on the SERVER end. Spells and feats work differently because the server is telling them how to behave. From the player's perspective, all of the classes, spells and feats are being selected and levelled normally, as if they were playing Vanilla NWN.

When you start talking about drastic changes to what feats and spells that classes receive, and even perhaps adding new classes for people to take, you're talking about changes on the PLAYER end. For NWN 1 this meant tons of extra CEP hak pack downloads, and I'm guessing that this sort of thing was required for Higher Ground back in the day to get things like 'level 60 characters with level 63 Bard song'.

I do believe this sort of thing 'may' be possible due to a new thing that EE released recently [excuse my ignorance for not knowing what it's called] that enables all of those things to potentially happen server side without forcing players to downloads tons of extra files.....

.... buuuut I think we're getting off topic when we go from 'what do people think of these item changes' to 'let's totally reinvent pure classes'. Probably could leave that sort of stuff for other threads.
Last edited by The Flying Rodent on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kazrite Army Members:

Gladdis the Damned
Thanatos
Post Reply