Arcane spellcasters

[Cornflower]

Can you copy the insta-rest function (only affecting spells, not HP) from the Arena and put it on some kind of limiter/counter/timer per player?

[driller]

I already have an outline on how this will work.

Can you copy the insta-rest function (only affecting spells, not HP) from the Arena and put it on some kind of limiter/counter/timer per player?

[Wing--Zero]

Oh my god I've never been so happy for a idea since I heard about the witch!! I can't wait for you to get this one rolling. It would make mages useful in the end boss fights.....I would make it so it can't be used for some type of PvP b/c I can see people taking advantage of that one! Just as a heads up

[Sorcy Sid]

The newly added Arcane Banner is a winner!!!!

Thank you, Driller.

[Asturonethoriusaline]

When I played 3rd Ed, 3.5 ed on PNP, with 36th level Wizards, Sorcerer's, with 23 to 43 int/cha(spellcasting stats), taking the best Metamagic feats, taking the best spells, carrying around enough extra spell scrolls, enough items like the wand/staff of wonder/wizardry, etc.

Our wizards, sorcerers, were defeating things like Balor's, Terrassques, Epic Dragons, etc, WITHOUT problem.

Now even tho this is different then PNP, correctly built PURE, STRAIGHT, NON MULTICLASSED 40 th level wizards, sorcerer's, SHOULD be able to do just fine here just like in PNP, without Drillers item.

But if dont min/max, build, play a straight wizard, sorcerer the right game mechanical way, etc, then probably would need Driller's item.

I know some would say the monsters, etc, respawn faster then in PNP. But with ONLY having to wait 2,3 minutes, combined with CLEVER, SMART, RIGHT kind of play, then wont need Driller's item.

But because some wont optimize, min, max, etc a 40th level wizard, sorcerer, some will need drillers item.

Also wizards, etc, are supposed to suck a little either at lower levels, without a party, because wizards, psionicist, etc, are whats called DEFERRED POWER UNTIL LATER character classes, and are supposed to need a party.

If wizards, etc, didnt need a party, werent DEFERRED POWER, WIZARDS, ETC, WOULD BE WAY TO UNBALANCED, POWER.

If want a epic, powerful Wizard, you have to EARN it.

And thats the way it should be.

If some cant handle that, I suppose that would be a reason for Driller to put this item out there.

Also to put into perspective:

Would a 40th level Elminster, 40th level Halaster, 40th level Khelben Arunson Blackstaff, 40th level Alustriel, 40th level Raistlin, 40th level Vecna, etc, need Drillers Item?

No. Then neither should a PC. 40th level mage need Drillers Item.

[Kalaron]

I do not see any problem for people to use the banner as a tool to extend the use of their own spell. It is correct that finding staffs/rods/book with spell and have the time to charge them with the electrified and so have an infinite pool of casting spell source is what i call a tool as well, as the use of scroll that you can buy or find or craft you own if you have time to do/farm/search. All that i call it tool as well. All the adove must be founf/bought/farmed etc, so we are talking the same thing, do not undertand your point.

[The Flying Rodent]

When I played 3rd Ed, 3.5 ed on PNP, with 36th level Wizards, Sorcerer's, with 23 to 43 int/cha(spellcasting stats), taking the best Metamagic feats, taking the best spells, carrying around enough extra spell scrolls, enough items like the wand/staff of wonder/wizardry, etc.

Our wizards, sorcerers, were defeating things like Balor's, Terrassques, Epic Dragons, etc, WITHOUT problem.

Now even tho this is different then PNP, correctly built PURE, STRAIGHT, NON MULTICLASSED 40 th level wizards, sorcerer's, SHOULD be able to do just fine here just like in PNP, without Drillers item.

But if dont min/max, build, play a straight wizard, sorcerer the right game mechanical way, etc, then probably would need Driller's item.

I know some would say the monsters, etc, respawn faster then in PNP. But with ONLY having to wait 2,3 minutes, combined with CLEVER, SMART, RIGHT kind of play, then wont need Driller's item.

But because some wont optimize, min, max, etc a 40th level wizard, sorcerer, some will need drillers item.

Also wizards, etc, are supposed to suck a little either at lower levels, without a party, because wizards, psionicist, etc, are whats called DEFERRED POWER UNTIL LATER character classes, and are supposed to need a party.

If wizards, etc, didnt need a party, werent DEFERRED POWER, WIZARDS, ETC, WOULD BE WAY TO UNBALANCED, POWER.

If want a epic, powerful Wizard, you have to EARN it.

And thats the way it should be.

If some cant handle that, I suppose that would be a reason for Driller to put this item out there.

Also to put into perspective:

Would a 40th level Elminster, 40th level Halaster, 40th level Khelben Arunson Blackstaff, 40th level Alustriel, 40th level Raistlin, 40th level Vecna, etc, need Drillers Item?

No. Then neither should a PC. 40th level mage need Drillers Item.

I think the point you’re trying to say here is that you believe only level 40 pure arcane casters deserve the item.

Well, be that as it may, almost no one plays pure level 40 casters, for obvious reasons . Whilst I think making this item exclusively ‘40 Arcane Caster levels only’ would be a nice incentive for people to make 40 casters over the current multiclassed casters, this makes the item basically useless for everybody now, and it wouldn’t be very popular.

In addition: Blackstone’s end game enemies have ridiculous health pools, basically hitting the limits of what the Toolset is capable of (think ‘WoW raid boss’ and not ‘PnP DND 3.5’) , and well above what a typical Caster could hope to deal with in one rest .

As a result, boss hunting parties prior to the banner were exclusively Melee characters (and tbh will probably continue to be exclusively Melee characters), bar the odd cleric for healing duties (which is a Divine Caster and so presumedly can’t use the banner) . The banner ‘at least’ helps arcane casters keep up with melee characters in drawn out fights.

May I suggest trying to fight one of these enemies YOURSELF with an arcane spellcaster, before drawing your conclusions on whether the item should be in the game and/or who should be allowed to use it. Past server experience may not be a reliable indicator of what to expect.

[sphinx]

Sid's IGMS were doing work on Shal TFR!

[The Flying Rodent]

Sid's IGMS were doing work on Shal TFR!

I imagine so, until he ran out. And then he probably used a banner, instead of running across the map and praying that his face didn’t get caved in while resting.

[sphinx]

Indeed. I don't really play spellcasters much but it seems like a great addition.

[Asturonethoriusaline]

When I played 3rd Ed, 3.5 ed on PNP, with 36th level Wizards, Sorcerer's, with 23 to 43 int/cha(spellcasting stats), taking the best Metamagic feats, taking the best spells, carrying around enough extra spell scrolls, enough items like the wand/staff of wonder/wizardry, etc.

Our wizards, sorcerers, were defeating things like Balor's, Terrassques, Epic Dragons, etc, WITHOUT problem.

Now even tho this is different then PNP, correctly built PURE, STRAIGHT, NON MULTICLASSED 40 th level wizards, sorcerer's, SHOULD be able to do just fine here just like in PNP, without Drillers item.

But if dont min/max, build, play a straight wizard, sorcerer the right game mechanical way, etc, then probably would need Driller's item.

I know some would say the monsters, etc, respawn faster then in PNP. But with ONLY having to wait 2,3 minutes, combined with CLEVER, SMART, RIGHT kind of play, then wont need Driller's item.

But because some wont optimize, min, max, etc a 40th level wizard, sorcerer, some will need drillers item.

Also wizards, etc, are supposed to suck a little either at lower levels, without a party, because wizards, psionicist, etc, are whats called DEFERRED POWER UNTIL LATER character classes, and are supposed to need a party.

If wizards, etc, didnt need a party, werent DEFERRED POWER, WIZARDS, ETC, WOULD BE WAY TO UNBALANCED, POWER.

If want a epic, powerful Wizard, you have to EARN it.

And thats the way it should be.

If some cant handle that, I suppose that would be a reason for Driller to put this item out there.

Also to put into perspective:

Would a 40th level Elminster, 40th level Halaster, 40th level Khelben Arunson Blackstaff, 40th level Alustriel, 40th level Raistlin, 40th level Vecna, etc, need Drillers Item?

No. Then neither should a PC. 40th level mage need Drillers Item.

I think the point you’re trying to say here is that you believe only level 40 pure arcane casters deserve the item.

Well, be that as it may, almost no one plays pure level 40 casters, for obvious reasons . Whilst I think making this item exclusively ‘40 Arcane Caster levels only’ would be a nice incentive for people to make 40 casters over the current multiclassed casters, this makes the item basically useless for everybody now, and it wouldn’t be very popular.

In addition: Blackstone’s end game enemies have ridiculous health pools, basically hitting the limits of what the Toolset is capable of (think ‘WoW raid boss’ and not ‘PnP DND 3.5’) , and well above what a typical Caster could hope to deal with in one rest .

As a result, boss hunting parties prior to the banner were exclusively Melee characters (and tbh will probably continue to be exclusively Melee characters), bar the odd cleric for healing duties (which is a Divine Caster and so presumedly can’t use the banner) . The banner ‘at least’ helps arcane casters keep up with melee characters in drawn out fights.

May I suggest trying to fight one of these enemies YOURSELF with an arcane spellcaster, before drawing your conclusions on whether the item should be in the game and/or who should be allowed to use it. Past server experience may not be a reliable indicator of what to expect.

How much HP is the end Boss? Dont have to give exact, but rough estimate, ballpark, ie: 500, 1000, etc.

Just so you know a Terrasque in 3rd Ed, 3.5 ed, is about 375 to 750 hp, takes a +3, +4 weapon to hit, has high spell resistance, have to knock it down to -, negative 100 to 150. Have to use either Wish, Limited Wish to Kill it permanently, after kill it with non wish means.

A Balor has about 250 to 500 Hp.

A Marilith gets 12 attacks per round, with 175 to 350 hp.

A epic dragon is about 1750 hp to 3500 hp.

Other stuff:

2500 to 5000 hp Tiamat

2500 to 5000 hp Bahamut.

Asmodeus 500 to 1500 hp

Also there are spells that do damage to things like constitution, strength, where if stat goes to ZERO, creature, etc, dies.

Also some spells like DISINTEGRATION, DEATH SPELLS, etc, that ignore HP, and kill.

Also there are spells where can dig, bury, trap creature into pit.

Can also cast a Banish Spell.

Can charm a enemy, have them jump into a volcano.

Can use Wish, limited wish.

Many ways to get around HIGH HP.

[sphinx]

This isn't pnp brother. It's drillers world that he created and that we love and end game bosses have well over 10,000 hp.

[The Flying Rodent]

How much HP is the end Boss? Dont have to give exact, but rough estimate, ballpark, ie: 500, 1000, etc.

Just so you know a Terrasque in 3rd Ed, 3.5 ed, is about 375 to 750 hp, takes a +3, +4 weapon to hit, has high spell resistance, have to knock it down to -, negative 100 to 150. Have to use either Wish, Limited Wish to Kill it permanently, after kill it with non wish means.

A Balor has about 250 to 500 Hp.

A Marilith gets 12 attacks per round, with 175 to 350 hp.

A epic dragon is about 1750 hp to 3500 hp.

Other stuff:

2500 to 5000 hp Tiamat

2500 to 5000 hp Bahamut.

Asmodeus 500 to 1500 hp

Also there are spells that do damage to things like constitution, strength, where if stat goes to ZERO, creature, etc, dies.

Also some spells like DISINTEGRATION, DEATH SPELLS, etc, that ignore HP, and kill.

Also there are spells where can dig, bury, trap creature into pit.

Can also cast a Banish Spell.

Can charm a enemy, have them jump into a volcano.

Can use Wish, limited wish.

Many ways to get around HIGH HP.

There's no auto fail rolls on 1's here, and final bosses have saves well above typical mage DC's [100+]. So cheesy spells like petrify, death spells, infestation of maggots, etc. don't do anything.

There are also no terrain changing items or abilities. Occasionally on NWN servers you can get 'oil flasks' that create artifical barriers that dumb AI can get stuck behind, but there aren't any of those here. Let alone any of the things you listed that sound like they came out of a PnP session and not an NWN server.

The bosses and the server around them have been 'specifically’ designed such that there is no way to get past their high HP. A lot of them also have universal resistances or healing, that allows their 'effective HP' to be increased above the 12,700 HP limit imposed by the NWN toolset.

In addition, the players who fight them have often been playing NWN for 10-15 years [like me], and so they know their way around the engine mechanics, testing and prodding for any easily exploitable weakness (I.e. any CLEVER, SMART, RIGHT kind of plays). And in the event any cheesy loophole has been found, driller has swiftly closed it with his wizard programming skills.

Once again mate: Think "World of Warcraft Raid Boss" with ridiculous stat numbers that requires multiple people managing Aggro and coordinating effectively to take them down, and not "PnP 3.5 with a bajillion options for indirect death via auto-fail 1 rolls and terrain" . I'd try fighting some end-game bosses here yourself before drawing conclusions on what should be done regarding items that are designed for spellcasters to have 'some' hope of combating them.

You can't just extrapolate from past experiences with PnP or other NWN servers and expect similar results; you gotta use information from THIS game and THIS server.

[ghost11x]

I worry about balance on that Instarest. I can think of tactics that would help.

... but it's worth a test run, for sure

[Pretty Fly White Guy]

Make it PDK / HS only. That'll balance it