Another reason for a Wizard over a Sorc is all the extra feats you get. Every 5 levels a Wizard gets a bonus metamagic feat so you're not as feat starved and can take those extra ones (maximize, still, silent, etc.)
If you're going to focus more on PvP then Sorc is better for automatically selecting your spells in a fight.
If you're going to focus more on PvM then a Wizard is more versatile. You can actually learn every spell and experiment as you like. You will have to purchase some from vendors but once you do that you can pick and choose based off the creatures you are facing.
One fun version I made previously, and may again, is a Wizard 29/PM 10/xx 1 . Being immune to crits and sneak attacks is always a bonus. The fun part is you can increase your Con high enough to get EDR 1-3 and still have plenty of INT for all spells. Your DC's will be lower but you are a reflective tank then (i.e. acid sheath, death armor and elemental shield cause damage to anything that hits you with a melee weapon and it will kill most things very quickly). Not being squishy is a different and fun variant of the typical soft spell caster. I really enjoyed it.
I also really like taking Auto Still Spells 1-3 to cast in full plate and with a shield. You will need to take Silent Spell feat since there are so many creatures that silence you now.
One epic spell for PvM is Epic Warding. You can get a summon now since Driller improved them, but they are not necessary.
Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
yeah, wizards can learn more spells and are more versatile. BUT I find most the time you are picking nearly the same spells you would use on a sorc, so I personally prefer the higher amount of casts between rests. To each their own though, there is no wrong way to go on, they both have their uses.
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Cornflower
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Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Post it! Post it! Post it! Wheee!
Who wills, can
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Wizard build:
Dwarf for extra con. Gnome also works at a penalty to Str and so does human for an extra feat (luck of heroes)
You want as much INT as you can get, followed by CON and some respectable Str to carry gear (we only get up to 40% bags and it can be painful). Dex, Wis and Cha can all be as low as you are comfortable having them.
You will be 95% wizard, with only 1 fighter and 1 rogue level tossed in to round out skills and proficiencies. These multiclasses can be added in at any point you like but the rogue level should be at level 37 or later to get the magic number 40 ranks in Tumble (and UMD if you want it) and to avoid XP penalty (Dwarf ignores Fighter levels for XP penalties, Gnomes ignore wizard and humans ignore highest level class). You can take a 2nd rogue level if you like for evasion, but you can get that from items if you're desperate for it.
As a high INT character you can max out fair number of skills. Concentration, Heal, Lore and Spellcraft are the basics and you can also add in both Crafts if you like with points to spare. Make sure to save some for Tumble and/or UMD (40 each) for that late rogue level.
As for feats you will want Combat Casting and it's improved form at epic levels, Toughness, All 3 Spell Penetration feats, 4 metamagics (Extend, Still, Empower, Maximize), All 3 Spell Focus feats, All 3 Auto-Stills (to cast with armor after you get your fighter level), an Epic Spell or Two (Epic Warding recommended, haven't seen the epic summons in action) and 4 or more Great Intelligences depending on what else you want to fit in.
This leaves room for some other feats of choice, I chose skill focus and epic skill focus in the two craft feats since my mage is also my crafter but you could fit in a second set of the Spell Focus Line. Epic Damage Reduction is also an option but you have to plan a lot more Con increases instead of Int, which will impact the number of spell slots you have and the DC of your spells. Might be worth the extra hardiness for you though, since there are some spells like missile storm and buffs which don't need saves.
For spell focus choice I recommend Evocation (Bigby's), Necromancy (insta-deaths and Horrid Wilting) and/or Enchantment (Dominate), whatever takes your fancy. I went with Necromancy myself, hoping that Wail of the Banshee and Undeath to Death aren't totally useless in the late-game. You don't need Spell Focus for buffing or retributive damage spells, those are useful pretty much all the time.
Stay tuned for Spells-of-note!
Dwarf for extra con. Gnome also works at a penalty to Str and so does human for an extra feat (luck of heroes)
You want as much INT as you can get, followed by CON and some respectable Str to carry gear (we only get up to 40% bags and it can be painful). Dex, Wis and Cha can all be as low as you are comfortable having them.
You will be 95% wizard, with only 1 fighter and 1 rogue level tossed in to round out skills and proficiencies. These multiclasses can be added in at any point you like but the rogue level should be at level 37 or later to get the magic number 40 ranks in Tumble (and UMD if you want it) and to avoid XP penalty (Dwarf ignores Fighter levels for XP penalties, Gnomes ignore wizard and humans ignore highest level class). You can take a 2nd rogue level if you like for evasion, but you can get that from items if you're desperate for it.
As a high INT character you can max out fair number of skills. Concentration, Heal, Lore and Spellcraft are the basics and you can also add in both Crafts if you like with points to spare. Make sure to save some for Tumble and/or UMD (40 each) for that late rogue level.
As for feats you will want Combat Casting and it's improved form at epic levels, Toughness, All 3 Spell Penetration feats, 4 metamagics (Extend, Still, Empower, Maximize), All 3 Spell Focus feats, All 3 Auto-Stills (to cast with armor after you get your fighter level), an Epic Spell or Two (Epic Warding recommended, haven't seen the epic summons in action) and 4 or more Great Intelligences depending on what else you want to fit in.
This leaves room for some other feats of choice, I chose skill focus and epic skill focus in the two craft feats since my mage is also my crafter but you could fit in a second set of the Spell Focus Line. Epic Damage Reduction is also an option but you have to plan a lot more Con increases instead of Int, which will impact the number of spell slots you have and the DC of your spells. Might be worth the extra hardiness for you though, since there are some spells like missile storm and buffs which don't need saves.
For spell focus choice I recommend Evocation (Bigby's), Necromancy (insta-deaths and Horrid Wilting) and/or Enchantment (Dominate), whatever takes your fancy. I went with Necromancy myself, hoping that Wail of the Banshee and Undeath to Death aren't totally useless in the late-game. You don't need Spell Focus for buffing or retributive damage spells, those are useful pretty much all the time.
Stay tuned for Spells-of-note!
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Familiar choices:
- Mephits and Imps are great low level tanks with their DR and Regen. I prefer Ice over Fire
- Panther is an excellent flanker when paired with a summon or hireling, but is quite fragile
- Peudodragon and Hell Hound are generalist bruiser types
- Eyeball is a great complimentary support with its multitude of ranged attacks, but leaves you with one less minion between you and critters
1st level spells:
Mage Armor: Even when you start getting magical gear the +1 Dodge AC stacks
Endure Elements: Actually the most efficient of the energy resist spells
Persistent Blade: Short duration when you want it at super low levels, but has nice DR that makes it more useful than Summon Monster I
Magic Missile: Classic
Shield: Good until you get some DR under (or on) your belt
Protection vs alignment: great until you start getting magic items that cover what this does
2nd level spells:
Stat boosts (bulls, cats, endurance): Always handy for yourself and others, including your summons. Can be empowered!
Flame Weapon: The buff that every melee wants
Ghostly Visage: Available in item form, but early level DR and a little concealment until better options come around
Death Armor: your first retributive damage, not much use on its own but is needed for the combo
Invisibility: Get around or out of trouble easier
Stone Bones: For use with Animate Dead during the period that it's your summon of choice (level 10-15 or so)
Acid Arrow: Competing only with Electric Loop and Combust as damage spells for this level, none of which are spectacular
Resist Elements: When you need to resist bigger chunks of elemental damage
See invisibility: not so much for enemies as for friendlies you buff with imp invis
3rd level spells:
Fireball: your low level solution to crowds
Haste: dramatic and short lasting increase to effectiveness until you get it in item form
Greater Magic Weapon: another spell the melees always need
Keen Edge: not as commonly needed as GMW above for melees but still good
Slow: Has a save but can neuter a tough critter when it goes off
Displacement: Good stuff until Improved Invis comes along
Protection from Elements: see resist elements
4th level spells:
Elemental Shield: Goes with Death Armor, you can probably start using this strategy now that you have this and stoneskin
Ice Storm: No reflex save (so no evasion) and Cold damage scales into epic levels. the blud damage is often resisted though
Improved Invis: The other primary buff for anyone looking to get into melee. Note this makes retributive damage slower because of concealment but also gives you more time to heal up between hits.
Stoneskin: Excellent DR
Polymorph self: can be handy in the right circumstances, usually Troll form in conjunction with DR and retributive damage
Lesser Missile Storm: not all that great, but can't really be avoided
5th level spells:
Animate Dead: skeletons have a WEAPON that you can buff with flame and magic weapon, and are immune to crits. By the time you get it a certain item is available to you for the purposes of summons but it's got its uses
Interposing Hand: straight -10 to attacks, no save, do not pass go, do not collect $200
Firebrand: Fireball, but better. Still not amazing but sometimes you need to burn a horde
Acid Sheathe: the third part of the retributive damage trifecta
Lesser Spell Mantle: for critters that cast at you. There aren't many, but they exist.
6th level spells:
Ethereal visage: by the time you get this you have better concealment and DR options, but it's an option nontheless
Greater Missile Storm: For use on hordes and single targets that require damage and you can't rely on saves. Metamagic friendly too
Flesh to Stone: your first real insta-kill, phantasmal killer and cloudkill aside
Greater Stoneskin: Better version of Stoneskin, both of which overlay item DR by the way
Forceful hand: great if it lands, but may have trouble getting it to stick
Undeath to Death: the right spell for the right foe, as long as their HD aren't stupid high.
True Seeing: if you need to bypass invisibility and/or concealment
Tenser's Transformation: If you're making a 'gish' character, that is to say you're buffing your melee rather than being a traditional caster
7th level spells:
Banishment: the right spell for the right foe
Grasping Hand: see forceful hand
Shadow Shield: very handy protection spell against the right enemies
Control Undead: fantastic when it lands, one less of them and one more of you!
8th level spells:
Clenched Fist: see forceful hand
Horrid Wilting: Frankly, spell damage just doesn't scale to match epic level enemies but this is a good damage type, a good amount of it and evasion doesn't work against it
Mind Blank: For those who didn't bring their own immunity to mind affecting
Greater Sanctuary: Get out of Jail free card
9th level spells:
Crushing Hand: see forceful hand
Black Blade: have seen it used to great effect but you have to concentrate on it, which can be problematic
Dominate monster: see control undead
Shapechange: Useful for the same reasons as polymorph self
Gate: Balors have weapons that can be buffed, making them valuable summons in the right conditions. Also a secondary reason to have Protection from Evil way back at 1st level spells
Time Stop: I haven't seen it in use, presumably because of how BSK deals with it specifically
Wail of the Banshee: Arguably the best Save or Die, but is still limited by Spell Resistance, Immunity to Death Magic and high Fort Saves in general.
- Mephits and Imps are great low level tanks with their DR and Regen. I prefer Ice over Fire
- Panther is an excellent flanker when paired with a summon or hireling, but is quite fragile
- Peudodragon and Hell Hound are generalist bruiser types
- Eyeball is a great complimentary support with its multitude of ranged attacks, but leaves you with one less minion between you and critters
1st level spells:
Mage Armor: Even when you start getting magical gear the +1 Dodge AC stacks
Endure Elements: Actually the most efficient of the energy resist spells
Persistent Blade: Short duration when you want it at super low levels, but has nice DR that makes it more useful than Summon Monster I
Magic Missile: Classic
Shield: Good until you get some DR under (or on) your belt
Protection vs alignment: great until you start getting magic items that cover what this does
2nd level spells:
Stat boosts (bulls, cats, endurance): Always handy for yourself and others, including your summons. Can be empowered!
Flame Weapon: The buff that every melee wants
Ghostly Visage: Available in item form, but early level DR and a little concealment until better options come around
Death Armor: your first retributive damage, not much use on its own but is needed for the combo
Invisibility: Get around or out of trouble easier
Stone Bones: For use with Animate Dead during the period that it's your summon of choice (level 10-15 or so)
Acid Arrow: Competing only with Electric Loop and Combust as damage spells for this level, none of which are spectacular
Resist Elements: When you need to resist bigger chunks of elemental damage
See invisibility: not so much for enemies as for friendlies you buff with imp invis
3rd level spells:
Fireball: your low level solution to crowds
Haste: dramatic and short lasting increase to effectiveness until you get it in item form
Greater Magic Weapon: another spell the melees always need
Keen Edge: not as commonly needed as GMW above for melees but still good
Slow: Has a save but can neuter a tough critter when it goes off
Displacement: Good stuff until Improved Invis comes along
Protection from Elements: see resist elements
4th level spells:
Elemental Shield: Goes with Death Armor, you can probably start using this strategy now that you have this and stoneskin
Ice Storm: No reflex save (so no evasion) and Cold damage scales into epic levels. the blud damage is often resisted though
Improved Invis: The other primary buff for anyone looking to get into melee. Note this makes retributive damage slower because of concealment but also gives you more time to heal up between hits.
Stoneskin: Excellent DR
Polymorph self: can be handy in the right circumstances, usually Troll form in conjunction with DR and retributive damage
Lesser Missile Storm: not all that great, but can't really be avoided
5th level spells:
Animate Dead: skeletons have a WEAPON that you can buff with flame and magic weapon, and are immune to crits. By the time you get it a certain item is available to you for the purposes of summons but it's got its uses
Interposing Hand: straight -10 to attacks, no save, do not pass go, do not collect $200
Firebrand: Fireball, but better. Still not amazing but sometimes you need to burn a horde
Acid Sheathe: the third part of the retributive damage trifecta
Lesser Spell Mantle: for critters that cast at you. There aren't many, but they exist.
6th level spells:
Ethereal visage: by the time you get this you have better concealment and DR options, but it's an option nontheless
Greater Missile Storm: For use on hordes and single targets that require damage and you can't rely on saves. Metamagic friendly too
Flesh to Stone: your first real insta-kill, phantasmal killer and cloudkill aside
Greater Stoneskin: Better version of Stoneskin, both of which overlay item DR by the way
Forceful hand: great if it lands, but may have trouble getting it to stick
Undeath to Death: the right spell for the right foe, as long as their HD aren't stupid high.
True Seeing: if you need to bypass invisibility and/or concealment
Tenser's Transformation: If you're making a 'gish' character, that is to say you're buffing your melee rather than being a traditional caster
7th level spells:
Banishment: the right spell for the right foe
Grasping Hand: see forceful hand
Shadow Shield: very handy protection spell against the right enemies
Control Undead: fantastic when it lands, one less of them and one more of you!
8th level spells:
Clenched Fist: see forceful hand
Horrid Wilting: Frankly, spell damage just doesn't scale to match epic level enemies but this is a good damage type, a good amount of it and evasion doesn't work against it
Mind Blank: For those who didn't bring their own immunity to mind affecting
Greater Sanctuary: Get out of Jail free card
9th level spells:
Crushing Hand: see forceful hand
Black Blade: have seen it used to great effect but you have to concentrate on it, which can be problematic
Dominate monster: see control undead
Shapechange: Useful for the same reasons as polymorph self
Gate: Balors have weapons that can be buffed, making them valuable summons in the right conditions. Also a secondary reason to have Protection from Evil way back at 1st level spells
Time Stop: I haven't seen it in use, presumably because of how BSK deals with it specifically
Wail of the Banshee: Arguably the best Save or Die, but is still limited by Spell Resistance, Immunity to Death Magic and high Fort Saves in general.
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Cornflower
- Duke
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- Location: Sweden
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Wow. I'm actually gonna go with this and try a wizard. Since 2003, I've only tried wizard on a PW once before, so this will be exciting.
Thank you Kane0, Garek and Sid for the excellent input.
Thank you Kane0, Garek and Sid for the excellent input.
Who wills, can
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
BSK Spell information...
BSK customization to Feats, Spells, Classes - viewtopic.php?p=2398#p2398
Suggestion for later level casters - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3212
BSK customization to Feats, Spells, Classes - viewtopic.php?p=2398#p2398
Suggestion for later level casters - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3212
Sid-Archer
Sid'darth
Sid 10
Sid, Sid, and more Sid.
Acct names Sid & SidII
Sid'darth
Sid 10
Sid, Sid, and more Sid.
Acct names Sid & SidII
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
I was wondering, none of the recommende caster builds (sorc, wiz) have an epic summon built into them. It seems that they are quite powerful, like mummy dust. What are your opinions on adding one of those into the sorc or wiz powerbuilds? Would it not make sense to have it as a meat shield for the endgame areas?
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
I have two DC Wizards, one with Mummy Dust and one without. In my experience, as long as your DC is high enough you won't need the mummy. It does help with some mobs (magic immunity, death immunity, high saves, etc), but a high DC Wail is usually more useful than a mummy. However if you have room for an epic spell in your build then I would recommend Mummy Dust over the others.
Horrigoth wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:49 pm I was wondering, none of the recommende caster builds (sorc, wiz) have an epic summon built into them. It seems that they are quite powerful, like mummy dust. What are your opinions on adding one of those into the sorc or wiz powerbuilds? Would it not make sense to have it as a meat shield for the endgame areas?
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Cornflower
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Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
So, how would you specifically level up your wizard in order to gain a high DC? (I thought the DC was set for each spell.... Call me clueless...)Yunim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:00 pm I have two DC Wizards, one with Mummy Dust and one without. In my experience, as long as your DC is high enough you won't need the mummy. It does help with some mobs (magic immunity, death immunity, high saves, etc), but a high DC Wail is usually more useful than a mummy. However if you have room for an epic spell in your build then I would recommend Mummy Dust over the others.
Who wills, can
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Who tries, does
Who loves, lives
(Ann McCaffrey)
Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Spell DC is calculated with a simple formula: 10 + Ability Modifier (WIS/INT/CHA) + Spell Focus (+0/+2/+4/+6) + Spell Level (0 to 9).
Some spells also have a bonus to their DC (Implosion has a +3 bonus, Greater Planar Binding has a +5 bonus, etc), but in general they follow that formula.
Both of my Wizards have Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy and 38INT (50INT with items), so they have a Wail DC of 45 Fort (10 +20 +6 +9).
A Wizard/RDD can hit 40/52INT and have a Wail DC of 46, but personally I'm not a fan of the build.
Some spells also have a bonus to their DC (Implosion has a +3 bonus, Greater Planar Binding has a +5 bonus, etc), but in general they follow that formula.
Both of my Wizards have Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy and 38INT (50INT with items), so they have a Wail DC of 45 Fort (10 +20 +6 +9).
A Wizard/RDD can hit 40/52INT and have a Wail DC of 46, but personally I'm not a fan of the build.
Cornflower wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:01 am So, how would you specifically level up your wizard in order to gain a high DC? (I thought the DC was set for each spell.... Call me clueless...)
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Douglas Thurman
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Re: Powerbuilders unite II: Spellcaster?
Bigby's forceful hand is nice. It works where the grasping hand doesn't. If you can grasp, grasp. The interposing hand is just a -10 TH on a target but with high level enemies -10 is better than nothing. I've been thinking of making another sorcerer build around the Bigby's spells. For everything else, Mummy Lord and buff the heck out of him. I'm trying a Cleric 21/Sorcerer 19 build for maximum buffs on the mummy. Max and extended spells mainly.